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  #1  
Old December 11th, 2018, 09:06 PM
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Default AI Tank Heavy Preference

Does anybody actually use this, if its simple would a more severe Tank Light be more useful?

Picklist normally produces a good "general" mix of units.
Tank heavy on has minimal effect (read GG long ago) but just increases chance at end of buy to purchase tanks from memory.
End result perhaps an extra platoon not 3:1 tank infantry ratio.

I would prefer the button to produce a infantry biased force.
Say 50% of the time it buys tanks selects infantry or possibly AT units.

I think there have been more tank light conflicts than tank heavy ones, applies to WWII also.
If this is easy would more people use it than tank heavy.
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Old December 11th, 2018, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

I use it in both games, have since day one (or since it’s been around), I believe it’s on by default.
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Old December 11th, 2018, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

Tank heavy will
- try to buy coys of tanks (if it has the points)
- Buy infantry by the platoon, rather than by the company even if it had the points to buty the company

In all cases - when it just has "chump change" left, then it will buy the common or garden leg infantry platoon and inf-AT teams (which aren't as cheap late on as a cheeky pair of bazookas in 1950s). Post 2000s, inf-SAM and AA units are also horribly expensive as well. And infantry itself can be expensive, if it has lots of night vision and perhaps missiles instead of bazookas in the mix. A WW2 Sherman is about 50 points or so, a modern MBT can be 500-600. A bazooka in 50 can be 15 or so points, a Javelin maybe 150.

Its the "when it has the points" bit that means that later in MBT times, that you will not really notice that much difference since tanks are awfully expensive. In the 60s, or in WW2 if it's a decent (say 10K points) force, you may notice a swing to armour. In say 1990+ - it will likely be tank platoon, mech platoon, support platoon cycle for both.

tank heavy still tries to have a balanced force - infantry and arty will still be there, just less grunts. But not eliminated.

Post 2000, if you want to see tank heaviness then it will need a lot of points.



For tank lite - just reduce the points, leaving it at regular buy. It will then favour leg infantry.

The best way to see what the AI buys is to enter the battle generator and:
- set your battle type
- set both sides to AI
- set both sides to Auto-Purchase
- set both sides to Human Deploy

Then generate the battle and see what the AI decides for each side (if only interested in one team, then set a civil war up).

Take a note of what it buys, then exit the game after seeing player 2's pick and then repeat the exercise several times. Maybe then go through several loops - say a set of purchases at 15K, 30K and max points. And if really interested - try a set of buys in say 1950 then 1980 and 2010.

You will then have an idea of what the AI purchase buys, given points and battle type and era (formation ID numbers used will vary by era). You should try a decent sample size of course - 20 odds battles at each setting. There are rare buys - like an assault helo buy at times.

if really interested in an "infantry heavy" setting then you could of course make your own custom OOB. Renumber say the tank coy and platoon it uses most and copy those elsewhere (fixing the company to point to the new platoons) and replace those with an extra leg coy or platoon. If you decide that you are not going to use air against the AI - ten you could move riflemen or in-at or whatever to the old AAA formations after copying those away.

But "infantry lite" has never really been an ask by players. Most of the asks are "why does tank heavy not flood the map with panzers!" and "tank heavy still has those nasty crunchies and arty and non-tankie stuff!". The answer is above - including making an infantry lite special OOB of your own, but this time change the non-tankie formations you don't like into panzertruppen for a "none of that grunt stuff, please!" custom super-tank heavy custom ORBAT.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 12:00 AM

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Default Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

Playing SP since the DOS days, I never use 'tank heavy' settings. Armor is the 'Mounted Arm of Decision' but you can not hold ground without Infantry.
Remember: 'Tanks, supporting the Infantry since 1916.'
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  #5  
Old December 12th, 2018, 04:57 AM
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Fallout Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

I always get mixed up about this, but the AI is closely related to the points (It's so automatic, I don't pay attention to it anymore.) I allocate, % of or what I set it at, whichever, I make sure the AI has enough so that I have enough to start out with at least four to six top tier tanks with resupply (RW) and build from there.

When I first played this game, I didn't use it. I always played the AI "Hard" and found it challenging to a degree. I feel strongly the AI set to "Hard", Tank Heavy and with enough spend points, is a much better opponent.

Currently only a couple of turns into the 1st battle of a long campaign (Meeting Engagement) and lost a LEOPARD not to the tanks I can see but to at least three ATGW teams I know are there and I suspect a 4th I haven't located yet. Currently I'm matched tank for tank (Again that I can see.) and have been mortar attacked at a couple of positions. I know the infantry is out there and it'll normally out number me but, not by a big margin. And this is just "one of those things" I've seen the AI do, normally I like to buy a couple of AA type units as part of my core. When I do normally at some point in the battle (Midway+) I'll be attacked. This time I didn't and was that a mistake, as soon it could at the beginning of the battle, what happens? Two planes attack and I'm down for now, two ammo carriers which the AI loves to get rid of when it can.


It can be a little better, but , given the opportunity as described above, you'll fight a well balanced opponent.

And if it didn't play the way it does and with the "tweaks" that it continues to get over the years, I would've stopped playing this game years ago.

Regards,
Pat
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Old December 12th, 2018, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

I want the AI to be as hard to beat as possible so I give it all the help I can, I use AI Tank Heavy ON, (all the options on, except for sound) and when playing CG I set the difficulty to one of the Hard(er/est) depending on my mood.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

I do use it.

It depends on the force I am using - If I am running a "light force" (paras, leg infantry, legionnaires, cavalry, etc) I set to OFF, if I have a "heavy force" (Panzergruppe, etc) I set to ON.

Also it can sometimes be dependant on enemy and location - a "falklands-esque" remote location means less tanks so set to OFF.

What would be really nice (but probably impossible / too much work) would be the ability to choose to face only a part of the enemy OoB eg FFL, Paras, Rebels, Insurgents, Marines, etc.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

Okay outvoted I just thought it would be nice to be able to produce battles with a smaller tank contingency.

Tank heavy makes no difference to AI difficulty.
Perhaps makes easier if they rush forward without infantry. Especially MBT and expensive gear reduces the amount of eyes AI can buy and it plays best when it has eyes.
Setting AI advantage points over 100 is what increases the difficulty and to a lesser degree map settings.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

The best way to play so as to give the AI an advantage is to pick an "underdog" force against a stronger one. Say Pakistan versus India in the 48(?) and 65 wars, patton 90mm against various centurions, if the AI remembers they are better than Shermans but no israeli use of old model shermans - ishermans by then. Or Jordan V Israel - same 90mm armed pattons against 105mm armed centurions. So you have to use tactics and terrain to your advantage and manoeuvre to the side to get reliable kills.

And also, you do not want to take air (including attack helos) against the AI - the reconnaissance effect is enough of an advantage, let alone the killing effect.

Then again, the human probably buys ammo units, which he understands, and the AI cannot. So his mortars last forever (counter-battery notwithstanding) and his ATGM and SAM teams can be recycled to the rear and rearmed, but the computer does not get to do that. So - go easy on ammo units to give the AI a chance.

I recently tried a Soviet WW2 LC using BT-7 as my core tanks in 41, and kept them for several battles before upgrading. They had an unfortunate habit of dying, so the core did not progress in experience too fast.. BTs have to get suicidally close to hit and penetrate panzer 3, even the 38t can kill them with ease. So use their insane speed to flank round a hill or forest and try to hit him en masse at knife fighting range - where if your shot misses, the German fire control and experience and silly short range means their reply shots tend to hit home. I really had to work hard in those first ~5 battles, and the 4 companies of BT had to lean heavily on the section of SU-57 attached to each coy a lot.
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Old December 12th, 2018, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: AI Tank Heavy Preference

Quote:
I recently tried a Soviet WW2 LC using BT-7 as my core tanks in 41, and kept them for several battles before upgrading. They had an unfortunate habit of dying, so the core did not progress in experience too fast.. BTs have to get suicidally close to hit and penetrate panzer 3, even the 38t can kill them with ease. So use their insane speed to flank round a hill or forest and try to hit him en masse at knife fighting range - where if your shot misses, the German fire control and experience and silly short range means their reply shots tend to hit home. I really had to work hard in those first ~5 battles, and the 4 companies of BT had to lean heavily on the section of SU-57 attached to each coy a lot.
Russian Long Campaign if played from start is always hard experience difference between them and Germans is large so Germans are a lot more accurate. Lack of AT weapons is an issue to taking on armour is expensive.
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