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  #1  
Old January 1st, 2009, 03:27 PM
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m113apc m113apc is offline
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Default Armour vs. civilian

I had this thought that I had to try out.
Israel vs. PLO, Israel attack.
I sat up a small battle, 20 x 20 map, with a platoon (3 MBT) of Merkava Mk4b against 4 platoons of civilians (rock throwing protesters).

My question was, could these rock throwing protesters knock out a Merkava, and they could.

My intention all the time was to try to make this happen.
I drove around just waiting, and they popped up or run away.
But when I had a chance, I stopped my vehicle in the middle of a crowd, waiting. And it happened. Boom, they blew me up, and killed my crew, if the crew survived.

So, my question is this.
Is this realistic?
If these civilians had a grenade, or a pistol or something, they might knock out a MBT, if the MBT was in a street, with no sight and the crew had their hatches open, but knock out a MBT with stones?

Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old January 1st, 2009, 04:39 PM

Koh Koh is offline
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Default Re: Armour vs. civilian

Take it as the civilians climbed on your tank, pulled the crewmembers out from the open hatches and beat them to death with the stones. Just because the icon for a destroyed unit always shows a vehicle on fire, it doesn't mean that the vehicle blows up and catches on fire every time it's destroyed. It's just another abstraction. The MBT is just as knocked out in game terms, regardless of what kills the crew.

So yeah it is realistic that the tank, which you parked in the middle of the street with hatches open with a crew instructed not to fire at the enemy, to get knocked out in this fashion.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 05:59 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Armour vs. civilian

Try the same with Infantry Support, The IDF has it's urban warfare stuff together and a lone or even 3 MBT's without Infantry Support doesn't sound like it would happen. IMHO

Bob out
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  #4  
Old January 1st, 2009, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Armour vs. civilian

Well, that’s a thought since the first unit was ready, not buttoned up or anything.

But what about my two other MBTs that was buttoned up, all hatches closed?

One of them was destroyed, the other was immobile.

The Merkava Mk 4 is an awesome weapon, built special for urban warfare, so it’s still a thought, isn’t it?
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Old January 1st, 2009, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Armour vs. civilian

Sorry Bob, you had already replied while I was writing my reply, so I didn’t see it before posting.

Of course you don’t drive around in a urban environment without infantry support, that is asking for trouble.

But the question still remains, how can you knock out a buttoned up MBT like the Merkava, or which MBT you would choose by throwing rocks?
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Old January 1st, 2009, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Armour vs. civilian

Quote:
Originally Posted by m113apc View Post
Sorry Bob, you had already replied while I was writing my reply, so I didn’t see it before posting.

Of course you don’t drive around in a urban environment without infantry support, that is asking for trouble.

But the question still remains, how can you knock out a buttoned up MBT like the Merkava, or which MBT you would choose by throwing rocks?
Any infantry can destroy tanks by close assaulting them.

Those without A/T weapons may well run away in tank panic or become severely suppressed if they fail.

"Rocks" are not rocks - they are a class 1 infantry weapon with range 1 (or 2?). The game has no "rock" or "spear" or "bow" weapon classes. So they ripped open a hatch and sprayed the insides of the tank crew compartment with a class 1 HE weapon.

Before WW2, some Abyssinian tribesmen dealt with an Italian tankette by swarming it and then manually flipping it onto its back. Then they lit a fire under it.

Cheers
Andy
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Old January 1st, 2009, 11:21 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Armour vs. civilian

Boils Down to where there is a will there is a way!

Bob out
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Armour vs. civilian

Quote:
Originally Posted by m113apc View Post
So, my question is this.
Is this realistic?
If these civilians had a grenade, or a pistol or something, they might knock out a MBT, if the MBT was in a street, with no sight and the crew had their hatches open, but knock out a MBT with stones?

Any thoughts?
Very realistic.

Bloke nonchalantly walks up beside the Tank.
Bloke then pulls the external Fire Extinguisher system handle.
Tank is knocked out, Crew have a strong incentive to get out.

Tank-jacking is easy if you have the right tools, and the Tank is not going to fire back (as is the case in the test you ran).
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Armour vs. civilian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koh View Post
Take it as the civilians climbed on your tank, pulled the crewmembers out from the open hatches and beat them to death with the stones. Just because the icon for a destroyed unit always shows a vehicle on fire, it doesn't mean that the vehicle blows up and catches on fire every time it's destroyed. It's just another abstraction. The MBT is just as knocked out in game terms, regardless of what kills the crew.
Well,if you have managed to open the hatches and lynch the crew, setting it on fire and maybe blowing it up is the easy part.
Scrounge a can of gasoline or whatever, pour it inside and light it up. The firefighting system cannot be that good.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:10 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
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Default Re: Armour vs. civilian

Remeber that tank rampage when some nutjob stole an M-60 near LA (IIRC) a while ago? It ended with a police officer - ex tanker - opening the driver's hatch and putting bullet into his head when the tank got stuck. A suitable stone would work as well I suppose.
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