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  #11  
Old August 18th, 2020, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

That can be added as an option for sure in the OOB but it's just as easily made by deleting one rifle platoon and added a SMG Plt
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  #12  
Old December 19th, 2020, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

This is a OOB modification suggestion post, followed by a scenario information/idea dump.

==============================
Changes:

Currently, in the Soviet Union OOB, we have:

Unit 220 - Lisunov Li-2 (Unit Class 60 - Paratroop Transport)

It enters service 1-44.
This should be changed to 1-42.

Unit 471 - Lisunov Li-2NB (Unit Class 62 Level Bomber)

It enters service 1-43.
This should be changed to 6-42.

Investigate possibility of cloning Unit 079 (Il-4) (Level Bomber) as a Paratroop transport to drop heavy equipment?

==============================
Background:

Per Russian Wikipedia:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B8-2

and:
https://vvsairwar.com/2016/12/19/lis...eastern-front/

and
https://www.airvectors.net/avc47_2.html#m3

and
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92...86%D0%B8%D1%8F

and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyazma_airborne_operation

and
https://web.archive.org/web/20100823...-article02.htm

and:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90...BD%D1%91%D1%80)

------------------------------------------------------

The Russians started with the PS-84, of which 237 had been built by 22 June 1941, all in civil passenger configurations, though in 1939-1940, a PS-84K "convertible" variant was prototyped, which could carry 24 paratroopers.

PS-84s continued to be built during 1941 by Factory No. 84 at Khimki, just outside of Moscow; with 1.5 aircraft a day being built at one point during October 1941. Due to the German advance, it was decided to relocate production; and the last PS-84 built at Khimki rolled out on 18 October 1941.

Several months later, the first Tashkent-built Li-2 rolled out on 7 January 1942 in Uzbekistan. Besides the name change (now being named after Boris Lisunov, the head of Plant #84), the new Li-2s being built now came from the factory with a 12.7mm dorsal machine gun turret as standard, along with folding seats and a large cargo door.

Production of the Li-2 was:

1942 -- 422
1943 -- 618
1944 -- 627
1945 -- 458

------------------------------------------------

The use of the Li-2 as a night bomber (Li-2NB) began on 24 June 1942 with the 1st Long Range Air Division, while in August 1942, the 62nd and 53d Air Divisions began to re-equip from the TB-3 with the Li-2.

-----------------------------------------

The first use of the PS-84/Li-2 in airborne operations came with the Vyazma airborne operation in January 1942.

In the original plan 21 x TB-3 and 10 x PS-84 were allocated, to deploy the 250th Airborne Regiment of 1,300 men in four flights (Paratroopers first flight, and then infantry and equipment in last three flights).

It appears the final ultimate plan used the 250th Airborne Regiment, with 21 x PS-84 (Paratroopers) and 3 x TB-3 (45mm ATG) allocated.

Ultimately, on the first night of the Vyazma operation (18 Jan 1942) 452 men were landed by 16 x PS-84; and delivery of troops continued until 22 January; at which point 1,643 men, 11 x anti tank rifles, 34 x Mortars (82/50mm) and 2 x 45mm ATG had been landed.

A later airborne operation on 17 February 1941 involved 41 x PS-84 and 23 x TB-3 aircraft.

In 1942 and Early 1943; they executed two operations:

Maikop Airfield (24 Oct 1942) -- 40 paratroopers from TB-3 and PS-84 aircraft were landed and they destroyed 22 out of 54 enemy aircraft at the field.

Yuzhnaya Ozereyka (4 Feb 1943): 80 paratroopers were launched in four Li-2 (PS-84), but only 57 landed (one plane didn't find the drop zone and returned). The plan was to find the HQ of the 10th Romanian division in the village of Vasilyevka and destroy it to aid an amphibious landing nearby.

The last major airborne operation in WW2 for the Soviets was the Kanev landings, made while crossing the Dneiper.

Kanev consisted of about:

150 x Il-4 and B-25 bombers for aerial support
180 x Li-2
10 x Il-4 to tow gliders and drop heavy equipment
35 x A-7 and G-11 Gliders

The plan was to land three airborne brigades (two on the first night, with the third in reserve and landed on the 3rd or 4th night).

It turned out to be a disaster due to several factors:

1. The 5th Airborne Brigade learned about the operation 30 minutes before boarding their planes (!!!)

2.) Many Li-2s could only lift 15 to 18 paratroopers instead of the state minimum of 20 men in tables; and drop tables had to be changed at the last minute.

3.) Not enough planes -- in one case out of 65 planes allocated, only 48 actually showed up.

4.) Due to heavy german flak, they had to drop from 1000m instead of the standard 600-700m drop altitude.

5.) The 45mm AT Guns ended up not being dropped at all.

After this fiasco, the Soviets limited their airborne operations to harassment ops or in support of partisans.

---------------------------

Regarding support of partisans, many Soviet partisans were supplied through the use of gliders, specifically the G-11 and A-7.

In one such operation in March 1943; the 3rd Air Army used at night:

35 x A-7 Gliders
30 x GR-29 Gliders

to deliver

50 tons of ammunition
150 commandos
106 support personnel
5 printing presses
16 radio stations

over 96 sorties over 12 days.

You could design a special scenario with partisans around a landed glider, and German SS/Police troops in the area looking for them....but at the scales we're talking about, it would be better handled by something on the individual solder scale (X-COM) due to the low manpower density.

RANDOM NOTE:
In a glider operation in 1942 on the eve of the Stalingrad offensive, KTs-20 gliders were used in Operation Antifreeze from 12 to 16 November 1942, where they used 12 x Il-4 tow tugs and 12 gliders to deliver 14.5 tonnes of antifreeze for tank engines and 60 flamethrowers from an airfield just outside of Moscow, all the way to the Stalingrad front.

It took about nine hours to make the full trip, and when they got close to Stalingrad, they came under fire by Me-110 night fighters. (!!!)
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  #13  
Old December 23rd, 2020, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

KT-20 icon already exists in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=51060

Story of soviet combat gilders https://weaponsandwarfare.com/glider...-soviet-union/

as Kolesnikov & Tsybin Ts-20 if will be usefully

and there description and nice photos
A-7 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/a7.html
G-31 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/g31.html
G-8 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/g8.html
G-11/G-29 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/g29.html
Ts-20 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/kts20.html
BDP http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/bdp.html
SAM-23 http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/...-23/SAM-23.htm http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/AK/AK2013-11/46-5.jpg
C-25 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/c25.html
Yak-14 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/yak14.html
Il-32 http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/il32.html

Last edited by blazejos; December 23rd, 2020 at 10:49 PM..
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  #14  
Old December 23rd, 2020, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

I have already redone them and built a KC-20 based on scale drawings

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Old December 28th, 2020, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

Beautifully icons really great for soviet gilder borne landings.

I d'like to add to this article about PS-84/Li-2 which was main airborne transport/tug aircraft in VSS.

great article about evolution of armenent and painting on this aircraft from silver passenger PS-84 to Li-2 with copula on top.

https://massimotessitori.altervista....o/li2-camo.htm

BTW. modeller page about evolution of painting on soviet aircraft's before during and just after WW2 the best what I found in internet until now very detailed https://massimotessitori.altervista....ges/index.html
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Old December 28th, 2020, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

It's nice to see examples to work from.

I always like to see how close I can get with the game palette

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  #17  
Old December 28th, 2020, 09:55 PM

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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

Impressive
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Old December 29th, 2020, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

Over the years I have tweaked the original SP palette to use colours a bit closer to "reality"

One "trick" I have used in the last couple of years when building Icons is to give them a light wash of grey. "Shades of Grey" are the largest number of colours in the palette so when the palette is applied to an icon there will almost always be a shade of grey that has the same intensity as the brown or green or tan used for the main Icon. When viewed greatly enlarged you can see the grey but when viewed as an icon on the scale of the game the tones blur together and the effect is to subdue the main colour and give it a weathered "used" look
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  #19  
Old December 29th, 2020, 11:51 AM

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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Over the years I have tweaked the original SP palette to use colours a bit closer to "reality"

One "trick" I have used in the last couple of years when building Icons is to give them a light wash of grey. "Shades of Grey" are the largest number of colours in the palette so when the palette is applied to an icon there will almost always be a shade of grey that has the same intensity as the brown or green or tan used for the main Icon. When viewed greatly enlarged you can see the grey but when viewed as an icon on the scale of the game the tones blur together and the effect is to subdue the main colour and give it a weathered "used" look
Like painting models, now if I could only figure to how to wash and all that in Paint Shop Pro....
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"The Senate decrees, the Grand Admiral calls,
the orders come down from on high,
It's 'On Full Kits' and sound 'Board Ships,'
We're sending you where you can die." - cadence of the Line Marines (Jerry Pournelle)
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  #20  
Old December 29th, 2020, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB11 - 2020

experiment

Try Opacity 15% and density 40% and use "nearest color matching" when applying the game Icon palette. Use white ( or black.....it doesn't matter which)
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