Can .map files and mods be hidden from other players in mp?

[Hoplosternum]

I am hoping to create a mp game on the Llamaserver (if possible). The game will have a backstory, various restrictive rules & hopefully some roleplaying.

To help this along I want to create a modified map with some set unique sites and also modify the nations playing and add a few modded sites.

So the game will involve both a Mod and a Map. I know how to make the changes I want in both, but ideally I don't want the players to be able to view these during the game.

The mod won't affect Pretender design but I don't want the players to be able to see the Mod's changes if this is possible. This is because the mod will give each power some extra units options and I want this to be a surprise for their opponents - it's important for the plot of the game (no problem for the player to see and know his own extras before the game starts). Is there any way for me to be able to do this? i.e. can I get the players to hand in ordinary Pretenders for their nations in a game that uses a Mod for those nations as long as the Mod does not affect Pretender design?

I would also like to set up special sites on the map. I want most of these units to allow recruitment of National Units of races not being played as these sites will mostly be Abandoned Capitals of nations not playing. If I can hide the mod I can hide the sites details as these go in the mod. But is it possible to hide the map details. Not the map graphics of course. All players need these. But can I hide the .map file from the players? If they can look at this then they can see all start locations and the special defenders I would like to set up.

Thanks.

[Zeldor]

From what I know, you cannot hide anything in mods, as everyone needs the mod to run the game. But players do not need .map file to play the game, so anything in there can be hidden [as they are embedded in turn files, so probably only lch could crack them :P]

[Hoplosternum]

Bah!

Well I supose that makes sense as otherwise cheating might be a bit easy In this case it would be done for design purposes and all active players would be in the same position. But I could see a scenario where it could be abused

If I can hide the map file though I can still sort of hide some of what I want which would be good. As I can add many of the changes on to new sites which although the players could see they would not know where they are set. So even people studying the mod would not know if the site was in a neutral location, by someones start or even unplaced (as a very rare unique).

And I can always request the players don't study the mod's changes

[llamabeast]

I believe you can do this actually.

Firstly the map file is easy, as the players never need that anyway.

As for the mod, what you could do is have players able to recruit extra secret things.

Host version: Includes everything.
Each player's version: Only adds to the recruit lists for their own nation. If there are any new units though, they will have to be present in everyone's version.

Using a difficult keyboard so can't face explaining why, but hopefully that should make sense with a little thought.

[Hoplosternum]

Thanks! I can easily make a mod for each person and a master mod combining them all. Mostly the changes I want will simply add an existing monster (say from another era) to a power and it won't hurt to for everyone to see if I have actually modified or added any units.

And is this possible to do on your Llamaserver?

[Gandalf Parker]

Llama has that right.
Everything in .map, which can actually do many things, can be hidden from players.

SOME things in the .mod file can be hidden. Ive done a few games n my server that way. If its done carefully, the players can end up using a copy of the mod with only 3 lines just to fool the game into knowing they are using the mod as requested. But it takes quite abit of experimenting to figure out what does and doesnt have to be in the players mods. Which items their copy will need to know about in order to properly display things.

Such as, in some cases you can get away with giving the players copies of the sprites for new units in the game but withhold the stats. Their copy needs the images to show them the results of battles. But the host is what uses the stats to decide the battles.

Something else fun to consider is that the mod file can also be changed in mid-game without having to update the players copies. Something like "The nation benefitted early on by the existance of the ancient spirits but by the 10th year those spritis were starting to fade in power."

Gandalf Parker
-- God of Mediation, Ally of All, Explorer of the "Weak" Tactic, the
Lord of Randoms and Surprises.

[Arralen]

Using different mod files on host and client is receipe for desaster - sooner or later, the infamous "inconsistent turn results" error will come up.
Check out this thread to see what happens if 2 versions of CBM are used which differ only by 2 lines ...

.

[chrispedersen]

This is something I've been cogitating on for awhile.
Some of my previous suggestions (spells that change map files etc have touched on it).

You can get 80% of the way there now, and get 100% of the way with a few modifications.

What would need to occur is the game host, instead of sending .trn files, would send encrypted executable files.

The executable would:
unzip the trn, the map, and the mod files
run dominions
(modification Upon quiting exit back to the ap, not the window)
(optional: submit the .2h)
Delete the .map and the .dm files)
Quit.

But this kind of approach would allow all KINDS of neat new features: Expanded random events. Terrain changes to map files.
etc.

[llamabeast]

So, if the differences are just in what each nation can recruit, it will be fine. That has no effect on battles, so won't cause problems with battle reports.

It'd go like this:
Player A wants to recruit a Basilisk. His copy of the mod says he can, so he's able to place those orders and sends his turn in.
The host receives the orders. Player A wants to recruit a Basilisk. The host checks its copy of the mod - yep, that's allowed, so it goes ahead.
Next turn Player B sees a Basilisk in Player A's fort. That's fine - it knows what a basilisk looks like (and indeed how it fights). How Player A got hold of a basilisk is of no concern to Player B (or at least not to his copy of dominions).

I hope that makes sense.

Yep, this would work fine on the LlamaServer. Obviously you'd upload the host version of the mod to the server.

[Hoplosternum]

Thanks Llama. Yes that makes sense and is just the sort of thing I want to do. So master and player mods it will be. I'll check Arralen's thread though first because as GP says a lot can be done with the map anyway.

Chrispederson - the sort of thing you are suggesting would be very interesting. I would like to see some expanded random events etc. But it does sound a little complicated, in a mp game there is bound to be one or two people who forget the order or something goes wrong. I could see a lot of delays happening And it's not something I need for the game I am planning. But good luck if you give it a go! I'd play!

Thanks for all your replies. The preperation for this game is going to take a while