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  #1  
Old January 11th, 2006, 03:34 PM

Quitch Quitch is offline
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Default Multiplayer suggestions

Just played my first online games today and while playing there were a few missing features I thought the game would benefit from:

1. It assumes you have an American keyboard. The game should read from the sytem settings.

2. Unable to use arrow keys, home, end etc. in the chat bot.

3. Is there a key combination to activate and close the chat window? When the game is fullscreen I'd rather see a portion of the screen dedicated to chat (or better yet, the option).

4. A button in the lobby which allows you to change between full screen and windowed mode would be good. I leave it windowed until I'm in game, but once I've won/lost there's no way change back without leaving the lobby.

5. I'd like to see this game expand beyond 1v1. 2v2 play (player 1 side A plays, player 2 side B plays, etc.) would be a logical extension, along with the offering of some 50% larger maps.

6. An observer mode would be useful, especially if there's ever going to be any tournaments (official or unofficial), or for people to learn, or simple observe interesting games, or games when there's only three in the lobby.

7. Not multiplayer related, but please improve the AI, or use an easily moddable AI system in your next game so we can improve it Whether the online scene takes off or not, one day the online server will go down, or the community will die, and I'd like to think I'd still be able to get a reasonable game from the computer even then.
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  #2  
Old January 11th, 2006, 04:59 PM
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Hiro_Antagonist Hiro_Antagonist is offline
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Default Re: Multiplayer suggestions

Hey there Quitch,

Thanks for your feedback. We're doing our best to patch in new features while we work on our next game, but unfortunately we won't be able to everything.

One thing that might help... when you're in a game, you can press enter to bring up the chat box, and escape to dismiss it.

Observer mode, asynchronous play (where players can log on independently, and the server sends an email when the other player isn't on), and other major features were originally in our design document, but had to be cut due to budget constraints. These are expensive to develop, and we're but a modest development team. =)

As for the AI, we also wish it were able to hold up against more advanced players, but unfortunately AI for this type of game is extremely difficult. From a mechanics perspective, LOL is like Advance Wars crossed with a CCG (because of the logical abilities). Advance Wars's AI (a huge-budget title) is also unable to keep up with advanced players, and CCG's are basically impossible to develop a competant AI for. Since we're a hybrid game (in terms of what the AI has to deal with), the difficulty of making a highly competent AI is somewhere between the two. All things considered, I think we did pretty well given our budget!

That said, our next game is based on the LOL engine, and will have a better AI because we'll be able to build on top of the work we've done in LOL. But then again, we're adding a ton of new ability behaviors, which will make it that much harder for the AI to always know the right thing to do...

2v2 and other bigger game types have been proposed, and while I'm sure those would be fun to play for some people, they probably won't ever be supported in a LOL-engine game. This is for many reasons, but one major one is that players would spend the majority of their time watching other people take their turns rather than playing the game themselves. 1v1 already has a problem of 50% downtime, 2v2 would be 75% downtime! Also, more players and bigger maps would require a whole new and more cramped UI (mini-map, more player data, etc.), tons of new internet code, and would provide a less satisfying game experience far more often. (It only takes 1 person dropping out or disconnecting to ruin the game for everyone else!) In the end, I think that development effort is much better spent making LOL a better 1v1 game, which is how it would be played 90+% of the time even if we added 2v2 or more. =)

We definitely consider each suggestion, and try to implement each one, but like I said we're just a small team with a tiny budget, and unfortunately won't be able to get to everything. So we have to weigh all of the options with how much time we have, and decide what features will give the largest percentage of players the most value for the amount of development effort.

-Hiro_Antagonist
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  #3  
Old January 11th, 2006, 09:02 PM

Quitch Quitch is offline
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Default Re: Multiplayer suggestions

I understand the difficulties of developing AI, especially in one where reflexes aren't important. There are some areas where it could easily be improved though, such as taking a city which it can't hold because the unit will die next turn. Spotting that is a case of brute force calculation rather than elegant routines.

AIs will never keep up with players though, not until learning routines become practical, which is why I suggest a moddable AI, probably through some scripting system. Without a moddable AI, your every day AI starts out okay, then falls behind the more strategies the developer never anticipated come out, or as ones the AI uses are dismissed as weak. A developer can't anticipate everything, and non-moddable AIs suffer heavily because of it.

For your arguments regarding 2v2, it's obviously a matter of opinion, but I'd point to Battle of Wesnoth to show that not only do people not mind the downtime, but team games are often by far and away the most popular mode of play. I just had a 1v1 where I was hoping for MORE down time as I was stumbling in my chat typing

As for the UI, I'd say it's on the generous side as is and could easily be shrunk. For example, there's no need for an entire pane dedicated to displaying target details, this pane could easily come and go as required.

However, I understand your limits, but I also know that without feedback there's no way of knowing what players think and want... so here's mine
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Old January 14th, 2006, 12:59 AM

Merlin82 Merlin82 is offline
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Default Re: Multiplayer suggestions

I have suggestion for Lol 2.

Make towns generate mana,dunno maybe 1000 per turn and for some towns it should be lower amount because of magic.And make also able to cast 1 spell per turn that cost mana,spells that your race have should be present on a main map screen,dunno make 4 spells for each races like 4 units in town or maybe more spells,i think that will make really fun combinations and allow fun gameplay,i also have suggestion what kinda spells to make for each race.And your ability to cast spells per turn depens on amount of towns you have,for example two towns gives 2 castings per turn if you have enought mana.3 towns will gives 3 castings per turn and so on.


For example for orcs i think is good sorcery so i would give them a lvl 4 spell lets say thunder strike that cost lets say 6000 mana ,if it is to cheap mana cost can be increased ,thunder strike does 6 points of damage to a single enemy unit and unable it to move next turn.

Lvl 3 spell lets say thunder bolt that cost 4000 mana and does 4 damage to a single unit+unable it to move next turn.

lvl 2 spell fire bolt that does 2 damage to a single unit and cost 2000 mana,also make unit burn reduce it is attack by 1 for 2 turns

lvl 1 spell bloodlust that increase attack +1 for single unit for 2 turns and cost 1000 mana

normally spell damage ignore defence,but mountain reduce spell damage by 2 and forest by 1 and mine by 1
and in orc town any damage spell reduced by 2,means like town has +2 magic defence.1 orc town generates 1000 mana per turn.


Necromancers lvl 4 spell improved life stealing cost 5000 mana,cast on single unit,gives permanent ability to steal up to 6 life if unit capable to do 6 dam,so each time when unit do 6 or more dam it steals 6 life.For example if you do to that kinda unit 8 damage by any unit and that unit capable to answer to your unit for 6 dam you will do only 2 dam to that unit instead of 8 cause it will steal from your unit 6 life.last for 2 turns

lvl 3 spell dark bolt wich cost 4500 mana and does3 dam to a single unit+ permanenty reduce it is defence by 2,defence can be reduced only once by dark bolt.

lvl 2 spell life stealing wich cost 2500 mana and gives ability to steal +4 life to a single unit if unit capable to do 4 dam. for 2 rounds

lvl 1 spell summon magic skeleton cost 1500 mana,can summon skeleton in any friendly free town+that skeleton starts unspent.

1 necromancer town generates 1000 mana per turn and has no magic defence in town wich means necro town no reduce damage of any damage spell.



Elves lvl 4 spell blessing of nature cost 5000 mana,increase a single unit defence by 2 ,movement by 2 and ranged attack damage by 2 last for 2 turns.

lvl 3 spell entagle arrow,does 1 dam +immobolize unit make it unable to move next turn,cost 3000 mana.


lvl 2 spell slow movement cost 2500 mana,reduce enemy target unit movement by 4 for 2 turns

lvl 1 spell battle heal cost 1000,enchant unit make it heal 1 damage in next battle,like absorbtion of 1 damage,can also absorb a damage from spell.


Elven town generates 1000 mana per turn+druid can generate additional 500 mana if he stays in town.And elven town has +2 magic defence.


Of other towns spell info i will post tommorow,it is just quick imagination that came in mind,dunno if it will be good
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