Armoured trains

[markgame]

This is getting to be one of my favorite threads .

Would someone enlighten us on what would be considered the normal operational use of armored trains? For instance, would the train halt to return fire if fired upon by partisans? Also, were there special devices or techniques used to detect or disarm potential mines or explosives on or under the rails?

I'll post any information I come across as well.

[PatG]

My admittedly limited source (German armoured trains in WWII - Schiffer Military Volume 17) states that attempts to use them offensively to capture bridges etc in the early war were unsucessful. It seems that they were often used as support - especially in anti partisan operations. Code limitations mean they cannot move and passengers cannot fire while loaded so your best bet is to assume the train has come to a halt, and off load your squaddies. Note that some passenger cars were equipped with disembarking boxes - basicly a hatch in the floor - to allow infantry to safely unload under fire. Only real game effect would be to increase survivability (I think).

Unarmed flat cars were used at either end of the train to detonate mines etc. Sometimes troops and support weapons were added on top with ersatz armour.

[PatG]

And for today's offering:

Somua S-35 tank carrier

Panhard 38(f) Armoured car with radio aerial - had both rail and road wheels.

Wooden flat with sandbags and infantry

Gondola with sandbags and infantry

New SPWW2Trains readme with some design notes.
And a new bmp of the set.

Usual cautions about compatibility and corruption apply - use at your own risk.

[PatG]

narwan said:
<snip>
Another trick would be to put impassable terrain along the railway track so the train can't move into those hexes. Unfortunately the same will apply to most other units too (vehicles especially) so this will limit the trick to use for set-ups and scenario's with infantry and few vehicles.

Narwan

I realize this will never happen but what could be used is:

1) a unit class "Rail"
2) a clone of the clear terrain that is IMpassable ONLY to class Rail units. - call it right-of-way
3) As Narwan suggests, lay right-of-way terrain along either side of the tracks and voila - a corridor restricting train movement.
4) Figure out some way to make a train move as a unit rather than as a collection of independant cars.

Again I do not expect the development team has the time or energy to pursue this and I express my eternal gratitude for their excellent work and patience with ever demanding users like me.

As a nasty hack, base the trains on boat units and use rivers for rails....

[PatG]

I was going to look into replacing the river shp file with the rail shp file and mess about with boats as trains to see what would happen. Thinking some more, I realized that if I posted anything like that here, I would be risking Don showing up at my door with a big stick and a nasty temper.

While picking blackberries (a task only marginally less painful than crossing barbed wire), I thought of another possibility:

If supported by the code, take the existing tramway and rail terrains and make them passable to units of class 197 river craft or similar while keeping their existing characteristics. Trains would then be based on this unit class. Problems would arise with river based units "sailing up the tracks" and with unit placement - trains on the water etc. For player generated scenarios these problems could be overcome by avoiding rails over water - the AI would be a different matter and any terrain passibility change would affect the game as a whole.

[PatG]

I think I've got it - or 75% of it anyway.

To refine my post above:

1) If supported by the code, take the existing tramway and rail terrains and make them passable by unit class 0 - Fortifications.

2) Make all other terrain impassable by unit class 0.

3) Base all trains on class 0 base units. The user will assign a move as required.

Units can be placed on terrain they cannot move through.

Since all AI usable class 0 units have move 0, there will not be any problems with unit placement or trains sailing up the river.

remaining problems:
1) controlling heading.
2) keeping trains together as units.
3) sound is not the best but I can live with it.

Any comments?

[PatG]

Here you go. Moving into independant railcars with the German heavy scout car Infantry car with radio and Pzkw IV 75mm kurz turret artillery car from 1944.

[Pyros]

Hi PatG,

You have done quite a remarkable art work!

I just wish to inform you that I probably know a way to do your train move like a train, but I can't start testing this specific technique until I will have completed the development of the ANZAC project (and after that I will also have to assist a friend of mine doing his private project), so you will have to wait for a month or two...

cheers,
Pyros

[blazejos]

And here are some sources about armoured trains:
List of all know armored trains
about armoured trains

the best page about polish armoured trains

[PatG]

Thank you Pyros. I have been following the ANZAC project - you have done some very creative work there.