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Old August 20th, 2018, 05:11 PM
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Default The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

Don, Andy ... I hate you!

By extending WinSPMBT from 2020 to 2025 you've created a lot of OOB work for us.

ALL this is currently tentative, but 90% probable (some of it is actually taking place now).

Marine Rifle Squad to be reorganized to 12-man, all armed with the M27.
3-man command element (Squad Leader, Assistant Squad Leader, Systems Operator [UAS "Quad Copter" UAV operator and Comm/FO specialist).
3x3-man Fire Teams (Team Leader, Automatic Rifleman, Grenadier) BUT with a 4th man still in the official TO&E making a squad 15-man, but this position will not normally be filled).
One member of each Squad will be a Designated Marksman with an M38 (an accurized M27).
Replace the M203 40mm GL with the M320.
Replace the M9 Beretta with the Sig Sauer MHS.

Elimination of the Infantry AT section (SMAW) in the Rifle Company.
Add a UAV Section to each Rifle Co.
Officially train the Company Forward Observers as Forward Air Controllers (they've been acting in that role for years).

Engineer Squad increased from 9 to 13-men.
Engineers to replace the SMAW with the MAAWS (Carl Gustaf).
Each Infantry Battalion to officially get an Engineer Platoon (they've been unofficialy attached for years), thus each Rifle Company will (unofficially) get an Engineer Squad with MAAWS to replace eliminated SMAWS (so they'll go from 6xSMAW to 3xMAAWS [or possibly 4-6]).

Replace the M40 Sniper Rifle (range 900m) with the Mk13 Mod 7 Long Range Sniper Rifle (.300 Winchester Magnum, range 1300m).

Increase number of Javelin ATGMs from 8 to 12 (all the new version with a 4750m range), crew to be armed with M4's, to be motorized with MRZR LTATVs.
Reduce TOWS from 8 to 4 (crew with M4's) with the intent to eventually eliminate the TOW completely.
Reduce the Bn 81mm Mortar Platoon from 8 to 6 tubes (crew to be armed with M4's), to be motorized with MRZR LTATVs.

Stand-up 5th Bn/10th Marines with HIMARS (in FY '23).
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Old August 20th, 2018, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

This is around for like a 2 months now. Looks like a switch to light infantry role - completely now. Less aggressive in firepower, more precise due to technology.

I still believe it will not hold :v
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Old August 20th, 2018, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

The USMC has always been "Light Infantry", just with heavy supporting assets in terms of helos/air. And when near the coast the fire support of whatever the US Navy has nearby.

They typically operate as quasi-autonomous mini-brigades built around an infantry battalion with a battery of artillery, a platoon of tanks, and a composite squadron of attack, observation, and transport helos and if truly operating independently a composite squadron of fixed wing aircraft. The big thing is they're highly mobile and much faster to mobilize then most US Army formations, and have built-in logistic and maintenance assets and typically carry apx. 90-days worth of supplies.

Certainly not "heavy" enough to take on fully armored/mech opposition offensively (they do OK defensively) but pretty competent vs most anything else.
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Old February 12th, 2020, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

As a follow-up here's the new USMC rifle squad TO&E.
https://www.overtdefense.com/2018/05...re-team-level/

NO OOB changes required Don!
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Old February 12th, 2020, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

And this is for FASTBOAT who may find it interesting (if a bit outdated):
https://www.aviation.marines.mil/Por...OIN%20PLAN.pdf
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Old November 1st, 2020, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

And just when we thought it was safe to get back in the water.

Seems field testing of the 12-man USMC rifle squad has run into some issues. No surprise, the 3-man fireteam was destined to have problems, one combat loss and the team loses 33% of it's effectiveness (probably 66% as a wounded man needs immediate treatment by his buddy for a couple minutes till a corpsman arrives).

So Headquarters Marine Corps is actually paying attention to the the professional infantry types and they're probably going to a 15-man squad.
1 x Squad Leader (Sgt)
1 x Assistant Squad Leader (Corp) Mostly to handle communications and position plotting
1 x Systems Operator (L/Cpl) To handle the squad drone and any other sensors the squad may be using
3 x 4-Man Fireteams
-- 1 x Team Leader (Cpl)
-- 1 x Automatic Rifleman (L/Cpl)
-- 1 x Rifleman M16 or DMR or MAAW as needed (PFC)
-- 1 x Grenadier M16+M302 (Pvt or PFC)

At this point NO CONCLUSIVE DECISION has made concerning the restructure, but the 15-man TO&E seems to be probable. Until a final decision is made no OOB changes are suggested.

(( If adopted this will require some serious rework when it comes to the passenger capacity of transports OR making a squad consist of 2 elements rather then one. ))
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Old November 1st, 2020, 07:28 AM

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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

Well I'm bit "surprised" that USMC will use German-based weapons (>M27->HK416/M9->Sig Sauer)in future. Do USMC ever considered using Remington/Colt rifles? Are they too expensive or otherwise not suitable for USMC?

PS. Will M27 continue using ACOG or some other crosshair?

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Old November 1st, 2020, 07:33 AM

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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

Sorry I can't edit previous. I meant Do USMC ever considered using some another Remington/Colt or another US-based facturers' weapons?

Warhero
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Old November 1st, 2020, 11:40 AM

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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhero View Post
Sorry I can't edit previous. I meant Do USMC ever considered using some another Remington/Colt or another US-based facturers' weapons?

Warhero
The German weapons are built in the US under license. Colt and the other US manufactors all get to throw their designs into the contests to pick the military weapons. If they don't meet the standards then they aren't picked.
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Old November 1st, 2020, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: The USMC will drive you crazy !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhero View Post
Well I'm bit "surprised" that USMC will use German-based weapons (>M27->HK416/M9->Sig Sauer)in future. Do USMC ever considered using Remington/Colt rifles? Are they too expensive or otherwise not suitable for USMC?

PS. Will M27 continue using ACOG or some other crosshair?

Warhero
The USMC really stresses accurate fire over volume of fire.

Aside from tradition there's a excellent reason for this. Unlike the US Army there's rarely a resupply vehicle nearby. What you're carrying is what you've got. Tho typically each Rifle Company has a jeep/HMMWV (perhaps with a trailer) carrying extra small arms ammo and a few 5gal cans of water. But generally resupply is a once a day (or less) affair. If the USMC expended ammo like the US Army they'd quickly run out. So accurate fire, and single shots, are the norm.

This brings us to the M27. The M249 was never a weapon the USMC liked, but it beat the M-16 (perhaps with a bipod) they'd been using since around 1969 as a team/squad automatic weapon. The M27 is basically a modern version of the venerable BAR of WW II fame. An M60/M240 is to heavy (as is it's ammo) for a team/squad weapon unless like the US Army you always have a resupply (and transport, they're a bit heavy to hump) vehicle nearby. There's nothing in the US inventory comparable to the M27, thus it was adopted.

Having used the M27 for a while, and not being to thrilled with the US Army's wholesale adoption of the M4 the USMC continued to use M16A2s and never fielded the M16A4 or M4 wholesale (they were used in combat zones but never fielded back home). It was determined the M27 was an excellent replacement for the M16A2/A4, better accuracy, more reliable, gets rid of the M16 gas system. Thus again the choice is what's avaliable in the US inventory or adopt the M27 wholesale.

As to the M9 and SIG, the USMC doesn't use a lot of handguns and many years ago the POWERS THAT BE at the pentagon intentionally let the M1911s be used, and unrebuilt until they were pieces of junk thus the adoption of the M9 as a replacement. After all the US Army is generally in charge of weapons procurement, and 15 shots vs 7 is ALWAYS better when your doctrine stresses volume over accuracy. So the M9/SIG are used because there's no other real alternative. but there are a lot of M1911s still in use unofficially. And almost any Marine that has the choice will take an M1911 any day (you only need to hit them once).
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