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  #41  
Old June 5th, 2012, 04:54 PM

Griefbringer Griefbringer is offline
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Default Re: I need tactical help

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Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
Can be rather annoying if they go "off the net"" while still firing a mission that drifted into your own position or perhaps onto a spot that your troops want to go to this turn (you then cannot shift it or cancel it).
Even worse if you have just moved in that position, and then go to the bombardment screen at the end of the turn to find out that the 155 mm battery is going to bombard it again and there is no way you can cancel that fire mission...

Lesson: before moving into a position, check that there are no friendly artillery units still bombarding it.

On-map units tend to be easier, since even if they end up losing contact, you can still manually stop them from firing eg. by moving them (though this might be considered a bit gamey).
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  #42  
Old June 5th, 2012, 11:50 PM
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FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
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Fallout Re: I need tactical help

On map arty will also drop comms once in a while as well during AI games I've played. Mostly due to moving them to avoid CB fires that are getting closer to my units. Most of the time comms are reestablished within a couple of turns unless I haven't paid attention to trying to maintain LOS then it takes longer or not until I move them again. This of course for me is against the AI.

Regards,
Pat
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  #43  
Old June 5th, 2012, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: I need tactical help

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Originally Posted by Griefbringer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
Can be rather annoying if they go "off the net"" while still firing a mission that drifted into your own position or perhaps onto a spot that your troops want to go to this turn (you then cannot shift it or cancel it).
Even worse if you have just moved in that position, and then go to the bombardment screen at the end of the turn to find out that the 155 mm battery is going to bombard it again and there is no way you can cancel that fire mission...

Lesson: before moving into a position, check that there are no friendly artillery units still bombarding it.

On-map units tend to be easier, since even if they end up losing contact, you can still manually stop them from firing eg. by moving them (though this might be considered a bit gamey).
Yes you can stop a out com arty unit from errent bomard by just direct firing them or moving them, not at all gamey imo.
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  #44  
Old June 6th, 2012, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: I need tactical help

With offboard atry it is impossible to stop rogue arty from firing as Andy points out.

Offboard arty assets are best used as CB fire against other offboard arty.
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  #45  
Old June 6th, 2012, 04:55 AM
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Aeraaa Aeraaa is offline
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Default Re: I need tactical help

Since I cant find the thread that was about different types of terrain, I'll ask here:

Can anybody tell me what types of terrain reduce enemy observation, especially against your vehicles? I know for sure that dug in tanks are harder to spot, but what about natural environment factors?
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  #46  
Old June 7th, 2012, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: I need tactical help

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Originally Posted by Griefbringer View Post
For further clarification, for an onboard unit to be able to fire indirectly, it needs to have a contact to it's own platoon HQ first. In the case of the Heart of Africa campaign, the mortars are unit C2 and their platoon HQ is C0.

If one is unwilling to rely on the vagaries of radio communication, then the surer way of establishing contact is having the platoon HQ in close physical proximity to the indirect fire unit - being within 5 hexes or so tends to provide very reliable line of communication to the platoon HQ.

However, in a platoon with mixed units - such as in the case of Heart of Africa campaign - this can cause a conflict of interests, since you want to have your platoon HQ both sitting back (to provide control for the mortars) and further front to provide leadership, fire support, spotting capability etc. to the rest of the platoon closer to the enemy. One way around this would be to attach the mortars to some other platoon that is more likely to be hanging back (such as the HQ A-platoon).

Ideally, the mortars should be organised as their own platoons, so the whole platoon can safely hang back and provide indirect fire.
I did catch enough of the rally ops particulars to re-assign platoons directly to B0 but I left C platoon under the A0. I didn't think to attach the mortars (C2) directly to A0 which may have prevented the problem. I'd actually organized for control exactly as you stated with only 2 squads in reserve and the transport out of the way. Mortars are set up way back to the east near the green victory markers.

Though I had read that units will just drop out of comm from time to time, I guess it just didn't stick the way it should have. Typical noob mistake but we learn by doing. Thanks also for the warning about out of comm arty continuing to fire onto an area I intend to occupy or not being able to check fire that's drifted onto me.
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  #47  
Old June 7th, 2012, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: I need tactical help

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Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post
Since I cant find the thread that was about different types of terrain, I'll ask here:

Can anybody tell me what types of terrain reduce enemy observation, especially against your vehicles? I know for sure that dug in tanks are harder to spot, but what about natural environment factors?
I'm brand new to this sim so please take anything I have to say with a grain (no, tablespoon)of salt but A full hex of woods between you and op4 shud block LOS, being closer to the edge of a contour line if you are lower may block the line of sight, smoke and dust trails (which you can often generate) will block LOS, defilade (hull down) positions with the defilade between you and op4 will reduce the range at which you can be spotted and buildings on the LOS shud block the LOS.

I'm going from old knowledge based on board games that operate in a similar fashion and what I've seen so far for myself in MBT.
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  #48  
Old June 7th, 2012, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: I need tactical help

A full hex of trees does block LOS usually, but it depends also on the game visibility setting - at high and very high visibility, LOS penetrates deeper into all covers. Thermal Imagers can also see a bit better into cover versus units with no NV gear at all. It has always been that way - and is perhaps supposed to show the effects of more sunlight? - ask the original designers.

(rant mode - skip if you like!)

The game ( its not a "simulation") does not (like most tabletop wargames rules) have limits on vision for e.g. rifle teams in the open. If something is spotted and in "LOS" then it is instantly visible to anything in visibility distance and LOS.

This is similar to the US-made paper and hex wargames of the 1970s, where it was "LOS" that was the king, and in opposition to normal wargames rules as played in the UK with 1/300 models which may have had e.g a 1000m limit on rifle groups, 3000m on ATG say, even if the theoretical LOS was there, and would have rules to "pass on" contacts within own platoon, to other formations etc along chain of command. Then the unit would still have to individually dice using the spotting rules to aquire the passed-on target. In tabletop wargame rules, LOS was merely a factor.

However - even in tabletop wargame rules, the "Player God" still knows about the unit that B333 spotted and will move all other units accordingly, even if they have not yet had the acquisition passed on yet.

That's why wargames are games and not "simulations". Wargames players have total control of their individual units firing, movement etc with the rule book attempting to try to put some limit on him. But he has too much information and actual control, hence the "Player God".

A simulation really only works when the player is totally limited to one point of view (e.g. an individual tank, plane, sub, or the Turcan Napoleonic/ACW games if you used the "lock view to Napoleons HQ" mode). Subordinate actors in sims will only do their own (AI) thing subject to your orders relayed by radio, rider etc delays, and you cannot "pop into" tank 3 and see that its got 12 HE left and a damaged suspension, or that it can see some Stug that you as Colonel don't yet know about because the report has not made it to your staff officer or the dispatch rider was killed or whatever.

If this was a "simulation" of battalion battle group HQ level, then you would probably be limited to a "Doom" type first-person view of your forward HQ and the various "head shed" tents. You would spend a lot of pre-game time making these "plan" things that wargamers really don't seem to like, having pre-battle orders groups with your AI subordinates etc.

You could have a POV where you jump into your land rover or command tank, wandering randomly round the battle area and subject to being shot of course - but then lose the message flow from most of your subordinates, the big map plot in your Intel tent (which is made up from true and false reports, not an SP type gods eye view! ) etc..

That sort of "realistic" HQ simulation could be put together as a text-based adventure game format actually. A simple map could be printed off for the player to mark up himself from incoming text reports in standard army format. Something like that may sell to the real military, since it's just a computer version of the "Tactical Exercise Without Troops" training scenario they already do. It would not sell well to the civvy market, who want "boom bang" and Hollywood style eye candy.

(end of rant)

Andy
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  #49  
Old June 7th, 2012, 03:32 PM
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Aeraaa Aeraaa is offline
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Default Re: I need tactical help

To counterant Andy, yeah, it is true that a real battalion or regiment or whatever CO doesnt have God's eye view, but then again he has a lot more competent company, platoon and squad leaders that can act on their own initiative and do not stupidly charge across open field as a huge blob waiting to be massacred (well sometimes this happened IRL, but how can you simulate the good officers in an AI?)
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  #50  
Old June 7th, 2012, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: I need tactical help

AIs don't really handle tactics well. Too many variables. They really do best at the divisional or higher levels (operational or strategic) perhaps, where everything is represented by a simplistic block counter with a few factors (attack, movement defence). Or perhaps naval games, where there is no added complication of 97 different terrain types.

But if they are not allowed "cheats" then the only thing they can really do is scripted pre-planned routines (like say the lower level Russian tactics were supposed to be)?.

Most AIs, especially at a tactical level, cheat - e.g. by having knowledge of the enemy (no fog of war for them).

Ours at least does not cheat and also it tries to fight you with the same points value (unless you use the AIAdjustpercent variable to give it a boost).

But that is all off-topic for the thread, so end of off-topic discussions.

Andy
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