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  #11  
Old November 23rd, 2017, 05:11 PM

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Default Re: Portugal OOB73

OK thanks
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  #12  
Old November 25th, 2017, 12:59 PM
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Exclamation Re: Portugal OOB73

João

OK..... I looked at it...... a lot

Here's the good news

It's a very nicely done OOB with only very minor terminology issues ( 'hey' for 'hvy' , Pltatoon for platoon in a couple of places for example but those are minor editing details) and a photo or two I would change. You've done a very nice job filling in details we couldn't when this was first written. I'm very impressed with it overall.

But now the bad news...

You have done a better job organizing the formations than the first effort you posted and the new ones are obviously more fine-tuned to dates than our original was but the master control picklist for each nation in the game has over 140 possible choices that make up a pick for any given time represented by the game.

These are the variables that make up a picklist for the AI to use.

min nr of rifle cos
Leg Rifle Co 1 ID (MANDATORY)
Leg Rifle Co 2 ID
Leg Rifle Co 2 min points
Leg Rifle Co 2 chance
leg rifle Co 3 ID
leg Rifle Co 3 min pts
leg rifle Co 3 chance
leg rifle plt ID (MANDATORY)
mech rifle co 1 ID
mech rifle co 2 ID
mech rifle co 2 min pts
mech rifle co 2 chance
mech rifle co 3 ID
mech rifle co 3 min pts
mech rifle co 3 chance
mech rifle plt ID (MANDATORY)
fortification ID (MANDATORY)
leg eng plt ID (MANDATORY)
eng tank plt 1 ID
eng tank plt 2 ID
max eng tank plts
transport helo plt ID
transport hel co ID
transport helo co minpts
transport helo chance
max transport helo buy
inf SAM or AAMG sect ID
AAA (guns) plt ID
SP AAA section ID
SP AAA Platoon ID
SP SAM Section ID
SP SAM Platoon ID
AREA AA battery ID (LR SAM)
Inf AT section ID
Inf ATGM Section ID
basic off map art chance
off map light battery
of map light bn ID
min points to buy light arty bn
off map med bty ID
off map med bn Id
min points for med bn
off map heavy bty ID
off map heavy bn ID
min remain to buy heavy bn
off map rocket bty ID
off map rocket bn ID
min points to buy off map rkt bn
off map tube minelet bty id
min points to buy tube art mine bty
off map rocket minelet bty ID
min points to buy rocket mines
basic chance for mine bty purchase
off map bomblet only bty (eg MLRS)
min points to buy AT bomblet bty
basic chance to buy AT bomblet bty
ID of first naval art bty
number of continuous naval btys
Tank section (for low poiits) nr 1
min points to buy a tank 1 section
tank section 2 ID
min points remain to buy t sect 2
%age chance to buy 2 instead of 1
Tank platoon 1 ID
min points required to buy tp 1
tank platoon nr 2 ID
minimum remaining points to buy TP nr 2
%age chance to buy TP Nr 2
ptank platoon 3 ID
min points remain to buy a TP 3
%age chance of buying TP nr 3
tank company nr 1 ID
min remaining points to buy a T co 1
chance of buying a tank co 1 if points adequate
tank co 2 ID
points needed to buy a Tank Co 2
chance of buying a tank co 2 instead of TC 1
tank co 3 ID
tank co 3 points minimum to buy
tank co 3 chance of replacing previous tank cos
SP TD (gun or ATGM) small unit ID
alternate SP TD section ID
%age chance of alternate replacing td sec 1
SP TD battery ID
minimum points to buy SP TD battery
Chance of buying battery if points avail
inf heavy ATGM sec (TOW etc) section ID
standard 2 or 3 barge carriers - MANDATORY
optional large barge cariers lump (4 or 5 say)
mortar section ID (MANDATORY)
Mortar bty or plt ID
heavy mortar sect ID
heavy mortar bty/plt ID
SP Mortars section ID
SP Mortars Plt ID
SP heavy mortars sect ID
SP heavy Mortars plt/bty ID
Towed guns plt ID
towed Guns bty ID
SPA platoon ID
SPA points req to buy a plt
Alternate SPA plt ID
Chance of alt replacing SPA Plt 1
SPA battery nr 1 ID
min points required to buy an SPA bty
Alternate SPA bty ID
Chance of this replacing nr 1
Foot (or only) FO team ID
vehicle or alt FOO ID
chance of a FOO being bought
basic planes ID
attack helicpters section
wild weasel (with ARM) - TBD (new type)
If planes bought, chance of replace with helo
MG or AGL section 1 ID
Alternate (50%) MG or AGL section
Light tank or light support ID 1
Light tank or light support ID 2
Light tank or light support ID 3
Light tank or light support ID 4 (pref for foot)
Points needed to buy light tank plt
Chance of buying a LT tank plt
Chance of this replacing nr1
chance of this replacing nr 1
chance of this replacing nr 1 (is more likely if foot)
max number of lt tank plts bought
Basic armour car section ID
Alternate light armour recce section ID
Min remaining points to buy armour recce section
Armour recce larger lump nr 1
Armour recce larger lump nr 2
Points needed to buy arm recon co
leg recce (scouts) section ID
A cheap jeep or second leg scout sect
unused
unused
unused
unused
max number of recce units allowed
small defensive AT unit
larger defensive AT type unit
Sniper Unit ID
Naval support unit 1
Naval landing support alt unit
flame tanks section ID



No picklist uses them all but all use them in different combinations and the combinations the game chooses change ( or evolve might be a better word ) over the 79 years between 1946 - 2025 the game covers those years are grouped by how ALL the 140+ categories evolve. The picklist we have now for Portugal fits into 8 segments

46-55 56-65 66-70 71-78 79-89 90-95 96-99 100-120

other nations have both less and more ......USMC has 100 ( !! )

in the original OOB a Portuguese infantry co is bought at least once per segment....and the original infantry co bought for each of those segments was 006. In your OOB Formation 006 only runs to 12/52 and then four more are introduced..... that breaks the picklist. After the end of 1952 the AI has nothing to use for an infantry co so the pick-lists for infantry alone would need to be redone but not just redone.. redone and expanded as NONE of the other infantry coys match the existing picklist breakpoints... and platoons were bought for all pick lists from the same formation from 1946-2015.....you used 5 and that may be more accurate it also breaks the picklist change.....and that's just infantry....... for tank platoons we used two formations and with your OOB I could do it with three but none of the breakpoints match the existing ones which means a new picklist has to be created and set up in the master control file.....tank coys on the other hand go from 1 that we used to 4 that you have split them down to and the plt break points don't always match the coy break points so more pick lists have to be added to get everything working for the AI....and the tank formation changes don't match the infantry so at the very least the number of time segment picklist for Portugal would double or more likely triple.. and likely more than that as each of the lines of possible picks has to match with the breakpoints in the OOB so IF ( this is just and example ) tank coys change at different time than engineering ones did a new one would have to be introduced to cover the change

.........and then there are the mortars to consider. The original OOB is set up to use formation 14 for the Mortar Platoon right across..... HAPPILY so do you for both platoons and sections ( 31)

then arty

off map light battery we use 49......you use 49

of map light bn ID we use 55 you use 55

off map med bty ID and off map med bn Id we us 50 and 56 for 105 cal arty....you turned them into ON MAP Hvy mortars

off map heavy bty ID and off map heavy bn ID for the 150-155mm cal arty we us 51 and 57 and you use the same

There is SOME glimmer of hope but it took 2 hours just to assemble this and I only hit the most important things . EVERY section needs to be checked for breaks and marked then find the common breakpoints then decide how many more picklists need to be inserted among the existing ones and if the existing ones have to be split into two or three or more individual segments.........OR I go the "easy" route and place "AI only" formations where the picklist we have not wants to find them re-nationalized so they don't show up for player picks in the game but the AI sees and used them and then anyone playing as human would see what you built offered when buying troops and equipment and anyone using Portugal as an opponent gets a more "generic" mix of units ( and in 99% of the cases is none the wiser ) and I'm thinking that ***IF*** I DO THIS that would be the most likely option chosen because juggling all those other variables and making them all fit perfectly is NOT FUN ( ask Suhiir........) adding a few AI formations is less likely to cause my head to explode....

So I *MAY* use this......it IS more complete and detailed than the existing master but I'm not committing to that just that I am going to look at this more closely over the next couple of months.

........and there is NO POINT in having formation 59 AND 60...they are both the same thing with the same number of units...60 was the original SAM formation so your 60 should run from 59's start date to 2025 (edit...closer inspection showed why you did it that way..... )

Don
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Last edited by DRG; December 15th, 2017 at 08:36 AM..
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  #13  
Old November 26th, 2017, 04:20 PM
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Exclamation Re: Portugal OOB73

This all came to a crashing halt when I discovered you had changed the CMG we used on the V200 Chaimite but instead of renaming the one in the existing slot you built a new weapon 79 7.62 HK21 CMG then you changed the existing 7.62mm L37 CMG.. that could easily have been simply renamed 7.62 HK21 CMG as it was not being used by anything else then you placed a 120mm mortar where the old 7.62mm L37 CMG used to be.

AND you replaced the 7.62mm L37 TMG in weapons slot 244 with an 81mm mortar

THAT is OOB work "Heresy"

At that point I gave up...... you cannot do things like that especially as it would have been DEAD SIMPLE to rename the old 7.62mm L37 CMG to 7.62 HK21 CMG and used slot 79 for your new 120mm Tampel St.....so what you did was put 120mm mortars in place of 7.62 CMG's for any scenario or save game that used the V-200 Chaimite and there **MAY** be none used at all but I cannot take the chance on any more surprises and I have little interest in doing a full side by side comparison of the two OOB's....you built a very nice OOB for anyone who just wants to play as Portugal but when you start juggling existing weapons around you make it unusable integrated into the game.
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  #14  
Old November 26th, 2017, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Portugal OOB73

Further testing showed there is no solution to changed weapons in existing save games and scenarios... change a MG to a mortar in the weapons list and the mortar is what that unit will use if it's in a save game or sceanrio.....it's been awhile since I actually tested that.
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Last edited by DRG; November 26th, 2017 at 09:46 PM..
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  #15  
Old November 27th, 2017, 04:07 PM

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Default Re: Portugal OOB73

OK Thanks, I will post information here and you will make the changes yourself. Thats the right way!
Thanks again!
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  #16  
Old November 27th, 2017, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Portugal OOB73

I've already found some units / formations in yours we didn't have and I noticed we had some units you had removed but I haven't gone through them line by line
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  #17  
Old November 28th, 2017, 05:57 PM

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Default Re: Portugal OOB73

Tanks
Valentine MkII, UK 43 to 12/59, used in Light Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
Centauro MkI, UK 45 to 12/59, used in Heavy Tank Sqns
M47, US 1/53 to 9/84, used in Tank Sqns, new ammo after 6/76
M4A1CAN VVSS, Canada 1/54 to 12/73, used in M4 Tank Sqns
M4A1E8-76W HVSS, US 1/54 to 12/73, used in M4 Tank Sqns
M4A3E8-105 HVSS, US 1/54 to 12/73, used in M4 Tank Sqns
M24, US 1/55 to 12/84, used in Armoured Recon Sqns
M5A1CAN, Canada 3/57 to 12/73, used in Armoured Recon Sqns
M48A2GA2, Germany 6/76 to 12/101, used in Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
M48A5, US 1/84 to 12/101, used in Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
M60A3TTS, US 1/93 to 12/125, used in Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
Leopard 2A6NL, Netherlands 10/108 to 12/125, used in Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
Engineer Tanks
M4A3E8-76W VVSS, US 1/53 to 12/73, used in Engineer Assault Units
M728, US 1/97 to 12/125, used in Engineer Assault Units
ARVs
M74, US 1/54 to 9/84, used in Tank Sqns
M88A1, Germany & US 1/78 to 12/125, used in Tank Sqns
SP Guns
Sexton MkII, Canada 1/54 to 12/80
M109A2, US 1/81 to 12/101
M109A5, US 1/102 to 12/125
Armoured Cars
Humber MkIV, UK 43 to 12/77
Fox CAN MkI, Canada 1/57 to 12/73
Panhard EBR75, France 1/59 to 9/84
Panhard AML60, France & South Africa 1/65 to 12/98
Eland MkIV, South Africa 1/72 to 5/76
Ferret MkII, UK 1/80 to 7/92
Saladin MkII, UK 12/81 to 11/93
Commando V150, US 1/89 to 12/125
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  #18  
Old November 28th, 2017, 06:11 PM

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Default Re: Portugal OOB73

We never had M41A1 Bulldog, Cromwell, M48A2 or simple M60A3.
We never had M7 Priest, M52 and the Pandur 120mm was never introduced
We never had M48A3 or A5 roller, M60A3 Plough or Leo2A6 Dozer or Mine-roller
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  #19  
Old November 28th, 2017, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Portugal OOB73

I've added this to the work list.


Are the leader names OK?
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  #20  
Old November 29th, 2017, 04:57 PM

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Default Re: Portugal OOB73

Yes they are OK
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