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  #601  
Old December 20th, 2020, 08:41 PM
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Fallout Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

John to your last, I would say it depends on the aircraft being flown due to the electronics onboard. One must remember "stealth" goes beyond just it's radar cross section. I'm going to it simple and use what I've read up to this point.

In an environment (Sweden) where I know the Russians are operating S-300/S-400 SAM Systems there's less than a handful of Jets in the world I would trust in potential combat environment as noted above, and the GRIPEN E/F is onE of them.

Two I'll knock out for all the "hoopla" that surrounded them and they are Chinas J-20 and Russia's T-50 (Used to be PAK-FA).

The J-20 it seems isn't as stealthy as first thought, and there are questions concerning it systems capabilities and reliability to include the powerplant.

If there was to be a foreign contender to the F-22 it would've been the PAK-FA/T-50 joint venture between India and Russia that I reported on extensively for years in here.

Basically with everything else Russia was trying to accomplish with their defensive needs, something had to give and it was the PAK-FA/T-50(And you might've heard about the T-14 as well!?!) they wanted to cut most of assets that would've truly have made this jet only the 2nd 5th GEN fighter in the world behind the F-22.

And NO the F-35 doesn't have true Super Cruise, because it has to go to "afterburner" first and it can only sustain "Super Cruise like" capability for around 150NM.
Super Cruise has been one of long standing 6-8 requirements to be met by a truly stealth jet. You might as well "Be on Broadway" with those bright LED (Neon just so not today.) lights.

So back to PAF-FA/T-50, India had warned Russia for more then a couple of years that if they didn't "reset" to the original concept of the joint venture (Stealth) they would withdraw from the the program. And so they did.

This next then should tell tell you a lot, India is now flying the latest version RAFALE and Russia with the T-50 is in "limbo" with it. An old saying comes to mind...Don't bite the hand that feeds you. India's hand healed quickly.

So I wish to leave with an article I would've rather have posted but just found today from a well industry respected source, talking about Canada, Sweden and Russia, GRIPEN E/F, Stealth and in the first para a remark about the F-35 and more.
https://skiesmag.com/features/saab-gripen-e-dark-horse/

USAF 4th GEN being around for a couple of more decades and how we're making them better...
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/...s-in-the-Game/

I've done enough damage for one day, take care!

Regards,
Pat
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  #602  
Old December 20th, 2020, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

They do make a compelling argument. What gets picked in the end will be a political decision and the coin is in mid air how that will go.
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Old December 25th, 2020, 07:29 PM
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Fallout Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

John, because you you enjoy (As some others as well.) a good technical read once in awhile, I provide you with the the following abstract on the Chinese J-20. It was dated 04 July 2014. That's about 3 years after the J-20 Prototype made it's first appearance while then Defense Secretary Robert Gates was in Beijing China to "temp down" military tensions that were occurring at the time and are still continuing.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...70B11720110112
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/w...12fighter.html


We didn't appreciate the "message" at the time.

As I noted in my last, it wasn't all it was "touted" as being which is at best and taken from Ref. 2...
"Actually the new J-20 is an advanced fourth-generation fighter, rather than a true fifth-generation fighter. Still though it easily outclasses older fourth-generation fighters, such as the US F-16 or the Russian Su-27."

I agree with that to an extent, however, we're flying much more capable F-16's now and Taiwan would be able to hold their own against the J-20 as we're updating (Now) their current F-16 fleet to the F-16V standard. And for Russia they are beyond the Su-27 with the Su-30 (Improved 27.), Su-35 and MiG-31BM.

I had to ref. the glossary a couple of times myself this is "deep reading" so it won't be for most people.

But it also demonstrates why I like this "think tank" because of the depth of their research, I can very much appreciate that!
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2011-03.html
Note it is titled "Preliminary Assessment"
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/j20.htm


The rest as noted from above and keeping it easy for me...
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/f16v_viper.htm
You have no idea how much an AESA capability truly means in a "stealthy" environment.
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/su_30.htm
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/su_35.htm
Highly capable aircraft.
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/mig_31bm.htm
One of the fastest in the world but, sacrifices some maneuverability as a cost to speed.


Enjoy the rest of your Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!

Happy Holidays if you prefer!!

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; December 25th, 2020 at 08:14 PM..
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Old December 25th, 2020, 08:29 PM

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Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
They do make a compelling argument. What gets picked in the end will be a political decision and the coin is in mid air how that will go.
Read an article that one of your MPs blasted the idea of buying older Aussie F18s. Compared it a certain submarine. I will post the article if you want it.
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Old December 25th, 2020, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karagin View Post

Read an article that one of your MPs blasted the idea of buying older Aussie F18s. Compared it a certain submarine. I will post the article if you want it.
Not necessary. I know about that
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Old December 28th, 2020, 12:11 PM

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Default Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

https://www.businessinsider.com/brit...ighter-2020-12

The main image looks like a model mockup but it is an interesting looking aircraft.
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Old January 31st, 2021, 02:37 AM
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Fallout Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

Awhile back you were asking about weapons loadout "graphs" for Aircraft. If I would've taken a "deep breadth" I would've remembered about AUSA, I would've provided the following...

Just scroll down, you'll find them.

F-22:
Yes this in one of the one's I did submit already, however, this could be a check against it or slightly more detailed which I believe will be the case here.
http://www.ausairpower.net/raptor.html

In order top to bottom Su-35+35S/Su-27SKM and Su-30MK2.
http://www.ausairpower.net/flanker.html Also:

Besides those good looking silhouettes, by clicking on them you get this "bonus" read on Asia's FLANKERS and Asia's aviation in general. It is both informative and technical in scope.

Unless I'm mistaken, something one of my first associates would find worth his while, so John enjoy!! I hope some of you will as well.
http://www.ausairpower.net/PDF-A/TE-Flankers-Aug03.pdf

Regards,
Pat
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  #608  
Old February 17th, 2021, 01:07 PM
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Fallout Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

This is another reason why the F-35 hasn't reached FOC, and this situation wasn't limited to just the USMC. They all did it because it's a "common" platform. In fact there's another modification just contracted that won't be complete until mid-2023 as DID has reported earlier this week.

The JANE's ref below just nicely encapsulates the situation. Para 3 will lead you into the problem, while Para 4/5 tell you how bad the problem is.

From Para 4 from DOD, "For example, 44% of purchased parts were incompatible with aircraft the Marine Corps took on a recent deployment."

I touched on this last when discussing ODIN situation which will be used to hopefully address these issues and the complexities of aircraft operability. You cannot maintain normal operational tempo, let alone sustained combat operations without a reliable supply chain.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...b-parts-issues

Regards,
Pat
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Old February 18th, 2021, 01:32 AM
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Fallout Re: Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

It sometimes amazes me how something "old" can be so accurate and relevant well into the future. It's a topic I've kept up with for a very, very longtime. Tonight is the first time I've read or seen this article.

I've seen over the years many times out here the question asked in many variations of the topic concerning stealth aircraft and countermeasures against it.

This is the first article I've read to date that covers the topics above with a little more clarity and sense of purpose. And as always, they leave you better informed afterwards then what you thought you knew starting it.

Of course I speak about AUSA. The topic STEALTH and COUNTERMEASURES. I'm "better informed" in particular concerning Countermeasures from a technical standpoint.

And to think, I thought I knew it all, well OK, almost all anyway!?!
http://www.ausairpower.net/PDF-A/APA...ay-2009-AE.pdf

Besides it also agrees with what I've been saying about the F-22 for I don't know how many years now. It's still true now and will be into the future for at least for another 10 years or more.

If you missed my post on this, the whole F-22 fleet is being modernized and will be more stealthy then it is as they're to be "recoated" with a new "hush/hush" paint if you will.

Another one for John!

Regards,
Pat
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