spob20 Yugoslavia corrections/suggestions - Page 2

Pibwl · #11 September 18th, 2013, 02:02 PM

095 NC.27 - there is some confusion in designations of Renault tanks from 1920s, but Yugoslavia had only a series of M.28 tanks (aka M27/28 or M26/27 or NC-2), with Kegresse rubber tracks (publications vary mow many there were). As far as it is known, there were no NC-27 tanks of a pictured model, with modified hull and steel tracks, especially acquired in 1937.

zastava128 · #12 September 19th, 2013, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

095 NC.27 - there is some confusion in designations of Renault tanks from 1920s, but Yugoslavia had only a series of M.28 tanks (aka M27/28 or M26/27 or NC-2), with Kegresse rubber tracks (publications vary mow many there were). As far as it is known, there were no NC-27 tanks of a pictured model, with modified hull and steel tracks, especially acquired in 1937.

Well spotted. The only armoured vehicles the Royal Army had were:

1st tank battalion: FT-17 and M.28 (54 total)
2nd tank battalion: R-35 (54)
armoured vehicle squadron: T-32 (8), Berliet-White armoured car (3), "SPAK" armoured car (1 - no idea what this was, possibly a WW1-era Italian armoured car), locally-made armoured truck (2)

Pibwl · #13 September 19th, 2013, 06:55 PM

Maybe 005 M.28 is supposed to be just FT-17 with a gun, while 097 NC.27 is supposed to be a tank with modified suspension (speed 7). But, apart from a name, the picture shows other version, they should be available from 1930, and they were canon-armed (on known photos at least), and with the same armour.

I've spotted one more thing:
159 Hurricane I - it should be rather armed with 8 MGs, not 20 mm guns, like Mk.IIc.

zastava128 · #14 September 21st, 2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Maybe 005 M.28 is supposed to be just FT-17 with a gun, while 097 NC.27 is supposed to be a tank with modified suspension (speed 7). But, apart from a name, the picture shows other version, they should be available from 1930, and they were canon-armed (on known photos at least), and with the same armour.

It's possible. But as you've said, the M.28 was acquired in 1929, so I'm pretty sure the NC.27 should be taken out. Not sure about the speed, but I don't think I've ever seen any tank with speed less than 6. Maybe it's something hard-coded inot the game engine?

I've found out that 2/3 of the FT-17/M.28 tanks were armed with 37mm guns, and that 3/4 of the tanks were the FT-17 model. So that means there were definitely FT-17 model tanks with 37mm guns.

Pibwl · #15 September 22nd, 2013, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Maybe there could be added river monitors?...

...

There could be also created several others, using Drava as a pattern, retaining AA gun and MG, only changing main artillery, all available 1/30-4/41:
- Vardar: had two 120/L45 and two 120 L/10 guns, 25 km/h
- Sava: had two 120/L35 (not 45) and one 120 L/10 guns, 24 km/h
- Morava: had two 120/L35, AAMG, 18 km/h.

There is one picture 23118 showing Romanian monitor of the same class, as Sava. I can provide pictures of all, if there is such need.

Michal

Pibwl · #16 September 23rd, 2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zastava128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Maybe 005 M.28 is supposed to be just FT-17 with a gun, while 097 NC.27 is supposed to be a tank with modified suspension (speed 7). But, apart from a name, the picture shows other version, they should be available from 1930, and they were canon-armed (on known photos at least), and with the same armour.

It's possible. But as you've said, the M.28 was acquired in 1929, so I'm pretty sure the NC.27 should be taken out. Not sure about the speed, but I don't think I've ever seen any tank with speed less than 6. Maybe it's something hard-coded inot the game engine?

I've found out that 2/3 of the FT-17/M.28 tanks were armed with 37mm guns, and that 3/4 of the tanks were the FT-17 model. So that means there were definitely FT-17 model tanks with 37mm guns.

I guess, that since they are infantry tanks, they shouldn't be slower, than infantry, which actually runs in the game

So, I think, that we need three tanks: FT MG-armed, FT gun-armed and M.28 gun-armed. Do you know, if M.28 was their official designation? They are usually described in sources as M.26/27 or M.27/28 or NC-2 and nobody seems to know what is correct.

By the way: a proper picture for MG-armed 001 FT is eg. 27560.

zastava128 · #17 September 23rd, 2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

I guess, that since they are infantry tanks, they shouldn't be slower, than infantry, which actually runs in the game

So, I think, that we need three tanks: FT MG-armed, FT gun-armed and M.28 gun-armed. Do you know, if M.28 was their official designation? They are usually described in sources as M.26/27 or M.27/28 or NC-2 and nobody seems to know what is correct.

By the way: a proper picture for MG-armed 001 FT is eg. 27560.

Correct, those three versions you mention were used. Official designation was M.28 - I'm 100% sure of this.

By the way, an interesting thing I just noticed is that the Germans captured some of the T-32s and they received the designation "PzKpfW 732 (j)". It's the first time I see a weapon with the "j" (jugoslawisch) designation. Unfortunately there's no space in the German OOB for them... And nobody seems to know where the Germans deployed them - they were no longer in Yugoslavia when the Germans surrendered in 1945, and there are no reports mentioning they were ever deployed in Yugoslavia.

zastava128 · #18 September 27th, 2013, 10:30 AM

And for my final contribution, some .lbm files for Yugoslavia. I've tried them and they work fine in my game. Readme file is in the archive and details what they're meant to replace (for the infantry that is; the vehicles and arty should be obvious).

Attachment 12636

(yes, most of the SMGs are actually Sten guns, but I couldn't find any *good* photo of a SMG squad armed with PPSh-41s)

Pibwl · #19 October 3rd, 2013, 04:50 PM

To be precise, a Polish tankette is TK-3 (TK).

I'm interested in Polish stuff - do you know, how many were acquired, and if they were TK-3 or also TKS?

BTW: I like an artillery observer

PvtJoker · #20 October 3rd, 2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

I guess, that since they are infantry tanks, they shouldn't be slower, than infantry, which actually runs in the game

So, I think, that we need three tanks: FT MG-armed, FT gun-armed and M.28 gun-armed. Do you know, if M.28 was their official designation? They are usually described in sources as M.26/27 or M.27/28 or NC-2 and nobody seems to know what is correct.

By the way: a proper picture for MG-armed 001 FT is eg. 27560.

There really are no tanks with speed less than 6, which translates to 18 km/h. The real FT-17 of course could do about 8 km/h on road, which would be speed 3 in game terms. I think the original SP and DOS SPWW2 limited the minimum speed of motor vehicles to 6, but as far as I know that limitation is no longer in place. Setting the unit sound manually may still be necessary. Perhaps Don can enlighten us. I don't have time to try that right now.

As for the NC.27, the Landships website claims that some were sold to Yugoslavia:

http://www.landships.info/landships/tank_articles.html#

It's under French tanks.

Unfortunately the article does not mention the source, so who knows where the writer got that info from.