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Old May 7th, 2012, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)


Wish I could say I was busy, but in fact I got distracted by sunshine. Will revert to troglodyte lifestyle ASAP.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 05:15 AM

LDiCesare LDiCesare is offline
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TURN 11:

Abysia decided to wait and group their armies. Fine. They'll besiege an impregnable wall with all their troops while I send my stealthy bastards and my minotaurs to wreck havok in their land. Cool. A rush requires you to attack immediately, not to delay, buddy! I'm sending some more revelers in the south and from there they'll march in to abysian territory and preach with dryads.
I build more gear. I thought the fire plate gave 100% fire res but, no, it's 50%. Sucks. I wouldn't have built that, but a better shield instead. I go with a pendant of luck, along with some boots and bracers of protection. That will give me a better defense, one more attack, fairly decent prot so I can withstand a few blows.
I also should get Arcoscephale to help me for hopefully 15 nature + 3 water gems. I send him 12 nature gems. He'll equip oreiads with vineshields. Immac, honestly, I'm not sure oreiads are the good weapon against abysian fire mages, but I need help, so I will just hope they work, at least as a deterrant. Anyway, Abysia can't field enough armies to fight two wars, so that should help us enough.

I really wonder if Excist's wrong assertion that maenads count as 1/10th of a defender made him think he could take my forts. This is wrong, as Calahaan pointed out. It's still the only reason I can see for him trying to attack me. His wrong post is dated april 8th, which is around turn 14. So I think that Abysia's whole attack has been made on the premise my maenads wouldn't help me hold my walls, which is false. And partly explains why he can never tear down my walls.
Anyway, it's quite sad, because if that's the case, he's basically committed suicide because of a wrong belief, and dragged me down the drain along the way.
Because of course, I didn't plan on being attacked so early as doing this would mean lost game for the attacker.
It would be nice to hear from Excist...
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Old May 8th, 2012, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)

Turn 4: Exponential expansion happens.

Only two events happened this turn. Two expected battles battles.

Victory was a forgone conclusion given the expected opposition of shieldless militia and Crystal Amazons, but the fact that neither expansion party took any casualties was unexpected news. This makes the second battle that my prot 7 Fir Bolgs make it through without losses. Combined with the experience stars they are getting they are becoming a stronger force without me having to do anything.

As my spoilers showed last turn, one of my unmarked still managed to receive two afflictions from the enemy mindburn assault despite his 6 HP/turn regen. Making 3 afflictions from the battle as a whole. Their mothers wont be happy once they return. I can tell you that.

Back in the capitol another expansion force already stands conscripted. Due to the continuing resource shortages I only managed to get four giants and a short guy last turn. Well down from the six that I wanted. Probably enough to take out the group of militia that guards the desert to the south east of my capitol though.

Every expansion force continues to challenge themselves. I'm mainly moving north east to block off whoever starts up there from getting a foothold in my direction. I have already decided that the three provinces to the east belongs to me due to their proximity to my capitol. If I can also grab the desert and the forest beyond them then I am happy.

Although the picture here dont show it too well, the province located directly to the south of my cap contains barbarians. And although giants normally dont fare well against barbarians I have a plan for how to fix it. Next turn I will finally get my allotted 6 giants per turn.

These gents will provide cover for these gal's:

Once I get them that is.

A useful thing to do is to look at the provinces adjacent to the ones with your dominion in it each turn. Although you do not have any candles in them you can still tell their scales and this can allow you to deduct weather there are any interesting magic sites in them. Looking at provinces early, before they have had the chance of having any dominion in them will also prevent the results from being tainted by yours our others scales.

I look at ???(64), witch have luck scales. Jackpot! As far as I know there is only one thing in the game that can cause luck scales in an indy province without dominion in it: The site “Totem Collection”. It gives the owner 1s and 1n per turn and increases the luckscales in the province. Not a super site by any means, but it gives me an S income that can be used to remote search for further sites and it only requires S1 to find. And I have just found S mages!

The other interesting province have growth scales in it. Not in itself quite as interesting as the luck due to the fact that there exist random events that cause growth, but it could potentially be something much more spectacular. One of the best non-mage, non-discount sites in the game increases growth scales. Namely “The Shrouded Lands” that gives, on top of growth: 2s 2a and 2n gems. I could not actually find it even if I got that province though because it requires N3 to find and Fomoria only ever get N1 on its mages. It might be one of two other sites but neither of them are very interesting so I wont contemplate those possibilities.

Meanwhile, the Druid Eingeach have been busy figuring out how to read in the last couple of turns. Once he accomplished that feat he was immediately told to explore the possibilities of the construction of magical equipment. With his quill he is researching almost as fast as a respectable mage!

The focus on construction this early will leave me without any early battle magic. But seeing the state of my mages, that probably does not mater. Almost all the things I want out of construction is located at construction 4 so we wont be seeing any use out of it for a while.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)

Turn 5: First contact

I actually had an unexpected event this turn!

Six beautiful nature gems! Keep them coming RNG! I need at least 30 nature gems to empower a druid. Otherwise I cant sitesearch remotely or forge boosters to get higher in the nature game.

Three battles happen.

My Paint Fu is weak but all the battles were victorious.

Our Fir Bolg finally start taking casualties though. The dying people were mainly dumbasses though as half of them were people who ran in to melee rather that threw their javelins like I told them to.

Javelin throwers often have these problems. Those in the squad closest to the enemy think they are too close to use their ranged weapons so they run in and die due to breaking squad coherency. My Fir Bolgs have defence 15 base with their shields. It does not help much because defence gets reduced by 2 for every previous attack a unit have gotten against itself. And with all the barbarians closing up for a hit they did not stand a chance. Had they stayed in formation the enemies attacks would have been spread around and their defence not been diluted as much.

In the northern theatre we finally encounters R'lyeh. I send him a message about drawing up boarders. The Isle of Balor is MINE! No mater what those huffy bankers might think! I tell R'lyeh that he can have the peninsula to the north in exchange. It is actually more in the zone-of-control of the guy starting to the north-east of me so R'lyeh landing there would be more of a threat to him and giving R'lyeh 3 provinces makes me look like a friendly and reasonable neighbor. It looks like R'lyeh have already made a failed attempt to land there based on the fact that he lost troops this turn and my scouting reports show that only 5 heavy infantry stands guard over Ermor.

Troops are marching north, but to not lose any speed by bringing a new expansion party to the eastern front. I instead recruit a mercenary party capable of beating weak indies on their own. Dante's Stingers.

I did not get the Archers in White despite my decent bid. Dang it. This means I have to combine two expansion parties to take care of the barbarians to the south of my capitol.

Oh well. The tiny expansion party killed militia just fine, but they might have had trouble with the barbarians in the province to the south of them if they were to attack alone. Ten Giants might be killy enough that they'll get through this without casualties.

Recruitment is cut back on in the capitol to account for the merc bid. I buy only what is absolutely necessary. I mean I'm not made of money. Not yet anyway...... Lets fix that.

You remember this picture from a bit above?

Like mushrooms, from the grounds sprouts militia!

This is all part of my clever plan to convince R'lyeh that I am an AI player. I often do things that must seem strange and witch only he can see due to his ocean provinces bordering just about everything.

What else hey are good for.... Well I think you can guess, good reader.

Oh yea! Some interesting things have also happened in the graphs since the game began.

I actually have a presence on the research graph now. The graphs reveal that Caelum seem to be using the famous Eagle King thug expansion strategy. Were in the player stay in his capitol for several turns while the research pretender with an earth bless (probably a great Enchantress from the female name) research the mistform and shockwave that the eagle kings need to expand on their own. Or maybe just air shield and mirror image if you feel like gamble. A solid strategy. If rather bold and risky.

Pangaea had his pretender research the first turn and then used it to expand. This combined with its nature/death titles indicates that it is obviously a Carron Dragon. A very powerful Pangaea only pretender with death and nature that got built in vine shield in CBM. A predictable build for Pangaea. But a solid choice none the less.

Arco seem to have built two philosophers. Or two Oreads. Though the later is unlikely this early due to cost. This means he is probably doing the sloth build thing. Good to know.

Several other players were complaining in their updates that Fomoria was looking scary and even though its early, this graph might explain it. My expansion curve almost look exponential! R'lyeh had a head start, but I am finally ahead of him as I should. Only Giants may be biggest! Caelum has only taken one province and then dedicated all its money towards research. Marvernis expansion stall and remain unimpressive. Pangaeas expansion stalled last turn. His pretender is not dead though so maybe it was just driven of by unexpectedly tough indies? Helheim has finally started to expand and Abysias line is hidden by mine. He uses stealth expansion to prevent people from realising how big he is!

From the income graph I can tell that everyone except Marverni probably overtaxed their capitol on turn 1. R'lyeh never stopped overtaxing it! Witch is why his income is almost on par with mine despite my scales.

Most graphs are pointing upwards due to new territories but Helheim's took a dive in the other direction and seem to have plummeted all the way down to 0 on turn 3! How this is possible is a mystery so I got in touch with him during turn 5 on IRC.

I dont have the chat logs because of mibbit, but this is what I remember.
: Yea I was hit by the plague on turn 2 and my patrollers failed so now my capitol have more than 100 points of unrest to patrol down.
: Also I have a Kraken of my cost killing my dominion
: But I fight on!
: Did you by any chance start on the “Peninsula of Bad Starts”?
: Wait? Its cursed?
: Why dont people tell me these things!
(I knew he started on the peninsula due to knowing were the Kraken went, but its best to not reveal these things in order to not harm my prophesy)
: Oh yea, everyone who starts on that peninsula, weather in SP or MP, fill be doomed to failure!
: Misfortune after misfortune!
More banter followed and he learned my starting position. But so terrified was Helheims player that he must have used mindbleach to remove the memory of this prophesy and our conversation from his mind. But the foretold misfortune came true anyway.

Anyway, I'm not sure if its good or bad that he did not start near me because although a weakened player like that just begs to be rushed, Fomoria have a hard time dealing with glamour cavalry in the early game. Maybe he will become someone else's target. Though starting on the peninsula he will only have two neighbors plus R'lyeh. That means he is hard to gang up on but his neighbors also knows that he have to attack one of them in order to expand. That makes for wary diplomacy.

One of these days I must make a post about the metagame. This post is as good as any. It is interesting to see that none of the players in this game picked any of the true EA powernations like Lanka, Hinnom, Mictlan or Niefelheim. Or Sauromatica. Instead we have many of the weakest EA nations like Caelum, Pan and Marverni. (Arco is a special case) Granted marverni gets stronger over time and with research, but...

In Vanilla, both Fomoria and R'lyeh would probably count among the weak nations as well. After all, Fomoria could not clam, make bloodstones or fetishes or hammers. Nor could it really afford to put these abilities on its pretender as fomoria could not afford to not have an imprisoned pretender if you want a bless, due to lacking the temperature preferences of the other giant nations. And you know what? Now, no one can forge those things, making the playingfield much fairer. Fomoria is still highly cap centric, but good scales can mitigate that to an extent due to decent non-cap troops.

The rest of the changes to Fomoria are relatively minor. Cheaper Morrigans, Fir Bolgs and fomorian giants, and weaker kings, are the main ones. Further changes were not made to the nation itself, but every heavy armor nation got reduced defence and encumbrance penalties on their armor. Making heavy infantry more viable. Several items have also been made better so that they are actually worth using, witch change Fomorias game a good deal.

The changes to R'lyeh are much larger. The fact that all the aboleths now are amphibious were a necessary no-brainer of a change. But thats only half of their increased power! The other half relies on the fact that R'lyeh is currently the only nation capable of making gemgens! (Llamabeast! I, what is this I dont even!!!) Ehh, I mean troop gens. R'lyehs 50g H2 Priests domsummons(2?) aboleth spawns and domsummon20s his sacred cap only 60g mindblasters. This means that every 50g priest he recruits from any fort will produce 10 (5?) spawn chaff and ½ giboleths each turn in dom 10 for the rest of the game. Or half of that in dom 5 witch is the highest they can reach by preaching. If you imagine him recruiting 3-4 of those each turn you can see the long term problem. He'll eventually run out of money due to upkeep but sacred troops and commanders never desert so I dont know how much that maters.

Jotwebe, the player of R'lyeh does not seem completely unaware of these things.

Anyway, lets talk about the rest of the opposition. I did not know most of the people in this game at all when I signed up. Some I has seen on the forum and some I knew by reputation, but I have never played a game with any of them in the past.

Immaculate is probably the one I have had the most contact with. I have been coaching him a bit in another game and from those conversations I would probably say that he is an intermediate player that learns quickly. He will be real dangerous one day, but for my sake, that day is hopefully not sometime during this game.

Warhammer and Excist: They exist. I have seen them around the forum on occasion but I have not had any diplomatic contact with them whatsoever. Or at least I have not gotten any answer on my diplomatic feelers to Warhammer. (Oh wait I did! Eventually.) Both seem very busy with real life stuff.

Bluemage and Roland Jones are Goons. I know next to nothing about them but I will assume from their goon reputation that they are axecrazy madmen that will attack their neighbors on sight and who do not believe in things like peace or NAPs. So far Bluemage have lived up to his borrowed reputation but Roland Jones have been disappointingly calm. Possibly due to his bad start. I have talked fairly much with both of them over the course of the game. Mainly because you can always find them on IRC.

LDiCesare is the most veteran member of this game. Probably the one I'm the most worried about before starting the game. Granted he plays Pangaea and thats a terrible nation. But they can get really annoying when played by a good player due to them having stealth troops out of every castle. And being unable to actually lose those castles due to them stacking the walls full of madwomen till they reach the sky.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 09:05 PM

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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)

Originally Posted by Corinthian View Post
Bluemage and Roland Jones are Goons. I know next to nothing about them but I will assume from their goon reputation that they are axecrazy madmen that will attack their neighbors on sight and who do not believe in things like peace or NAPs. So far Bluemage have lived up to his borrowed reputation but Roland Jones have been disappointingly calm. Possibly due to his bad start. I have talked fairly much with both of them over the course of the game. Mainly because you can always find them on IRC.
Your assessment of goons in general- and the two of us in particular- is... shall we say, *unique*. Goons are typically not ax-crazy, mad, or indiscriminate. If anything, good goon Dom3 players (of which I am NOT one) should have a reputation for being deliberate, conniving, and opportunistic. You can count on them to do exactly as they say they will, for exactly as long as it benefits them- and no longer.

Except for trades. No goon would dishonor a trade. No matter how sneaky.

The big difference between Shrapnel players and SA players is the mindset. Shrapnel seems to favor late 18th century to early 19th century rules of war- gentleman generals, upholding their honor on the field of battle. For one thing, you favor binding agreements, and some degree of professional courtesy.

Goons are more like the Great Houses of Dune. If you haven't heard from somebody, they're probably planning to invade you. If they have talked to you, they're either busy killing somewhere else (and want a nice, quiet border while they do it), or are trying to get you to drop your guard before they invade. The only agreement that is binding is one that is in the best interests of the goon, and even then, only until it stops being so. The only question in an alliance is who will break it first.

After all, this is a game of war. There can only be one winner. All alliances are, by definition, temporary, since no team can ever win the game. You can't have a pair be Pantokrator. In the end, you WILL have to fight everybody else, so maintaining an alliance is effectively pointless, unless it benefits you in the short term, or keeps another player from dominating the game.

Oddly enough, both Roland Jones and myself are generally less treacherous than most goons. Generally, if we say something, you can assume it to be the truth- more than you'll get from most goons. I won't say much more about RJ, except that we've always been able to keep things cordial, amicable, and honorable.

(Mind you, I might be lying about being honest/getting along with my fellow goon. You never know.

Paranoid yet? Good. You're ready for an SA game.)

Apparently, though, Corinthian is either relying on first impressions as he writes his opinions, or not reading my turns. When faced with a rapidly expanding enemy, the last thing you want to do is let them consolidate- and his own graphs show you just how well his expansion is going. A desire to stop him from taking all of the land flows rationally from that fact.

I had just wiped out a conventional army of his, with relatively trivial losses. As far as I could tell, I was facing a small group of giants, the remnants of the army I'd killed, and little else. The plan was to make a play for territory, quickly drive down to the edge of where I'd wanted to be anyway, and sue for terms based on a much more defensible border, cutting off one avenue of expansion in the process, and making it conceivably possible for me to keep the juggernaut off my back. There was both time and thought put into that plan, and I would've gone for immediate peace were it not for two things.

1. Fomoria was in territories I'd claimed as mine. (I mean, really? Did he not SEE the invisible signs I'd posted?)
2. I assumed that what I'd seen was representative of his armies as a whole, and figured I could intimidate him into a better border.

Suffice it to say that Cori would've been FAR better off to assume less insanity, more sense, and a LOT less knowledge on my part.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 10:42 PM

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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)

Having played in both communities:
-Goons typically prefer "I will not attack you in the next 10 turns" agreements over NAP 3s. I have come to share this view, cancelling a NAP 3 gives your opponent clear evidence you are going for him, quitly letting the 10 turn no war pact slide does not. There are also "We will not attack each other unless the other is looking really weak" pacts, which I recently had with thedemon. It stuck untill effing midgard ran away with the game because effing Mictlan put up Astral Corrpution and a Doom Horror at my mega gate stone troop leader (heroic leadership, he actually was not very strong otherwise....)
-Shrapnell players tend to view a non aggression based agreement as neccessary for trading/cooperating/sharing information. Goons do on occassion trade with people they are at war with.
-I would say that role playing is a bit more difficult in goon games, because the single mega thread + IRC is not very suited for it.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 11:18 PM

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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)

Well, regardless of any differences, its certainly nice to see some cross-fertilization. I just wish SA didn't require you to give them your credit card information or i think we'd see a lot more of it. Also the SA forum mega-thread is a really horrible way to do things. (having said bad things about SA- i must say i really like the goon players i talk to on theDemon's ICQ)
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Old May 9th, 2012, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)

my 2 cents. I'm happy that there is more contact between the two communities. We might not all agree on everything. But difference in play styles and ideas is interesting.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 06:36 PM

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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)

I've extended the turn lengths since they are taking a bit longer and it looked like maybe a few of us would stall- including myself.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Now Discussing Turns up to 8-9)

Turn 6: Confusion reign.

This is one of the turns were my recollection of what happened is different from what I saved in the H2 file. Possibly because I sent in a modified turn to the server and forgot to update the archives. I will be correcting the mistakes as well as I am able.

Three battles happen and once again no one dies. If only we could go on like this forever...

Oooh and I also won the bid for Dante's Stingers. A completely generic heavy infantry company of 30 men. They are useful because they can often expand on their own against weak indies with modest attrition.

Only two giants this turn to compliment the three already in garrison. But why? Were did all my money go?

Oh that explains it. R'lyeh is expanding southwards and I was antsy that they might try a sneak attack upon my capitol. This early they might knock me out of the game if they succeeds with that. I raises the PD in my capitol by ten points to 35 just to be safe.

Otherwise nothing much happens. Expansion continues according to schedule. Though I am not entirely sure why I did not split the southern force that so valiantly defeated the barbarians in to two groups, and attacked two provinces? Possibly because I was not entirely sure who was beneath me and weather he was powerful? I could have used a big expansion force in case I would run in to an enemy expansion force? I know there is someone starting two provinces down but I have no idea who it is.

Turn 7: Second contact of the bad kind.

Expansion continues to go splendid. Only casualties are four mercs who dies to lion tribe arrows and..... Wait? What is this? Two battles in the same province?

Oh... Well I guess I know who my eastern neighbor is.

My veteran warriors fought bravely. They battled to the last man without ever retreating. The only ones who left the field were my force commander and my cute prophet. But they were too important to die needlessly so they will just have to bear the shame.

Overall, I think my troops held up well against the enemy onslaught. The main problem was that the enemies were so numerous that they overwhelmed the Fir Bolg warriors 16 points of defense. And the enemy used one of Marvernis new national priest spells: “Strength of Boars” witch increases the strength of every friendly unit on the battlefield by 4. Meaning that almost every hit was a kill. The warriors held for a while as the slingers pelted the naked enemies with great results. But the warriors were soon overrun and the slingers who lacks the warriors high defense were cut down before they could flee.

That is one heck of an expansion force to conquer a province that my scouts told me contained only eight troops though. Almost looks like an invasion force to me. This worries me. Granted, Marverni got less than half my number of provinces and barely a third of my income. But I cant think of any other reason for such an army. Maybe he got an ally in R'lyeh?

To settle my worries I got in contact with Bluemage142 on IRC. I might have talked to him before this turn but I dont remember. I still have no chat logs, but I imagine the conversation went something like this:

Cori>: Hello there new neighbor. Thats a mighty army you got there.
Cori>: I hope you are not planning to invade me.
Workmage>: Haha.
Workmage>: Well, I was planning to.
Workmage>: But dont worry.
Workmage>: I will change my orders as soon as I get home.
Cori>: That's a relief.
See!? This is the power of diplomacy! Not that I think it prevented an attack, but rather that I was made aware of the attack. Armed with this knowledge I contemplate my options.

I imagine various places Marv could attack and how to counter. But eventually I just decides to play it safe and focus all my efforts on this mysterious province I just noticed, Nardago. The strange thing about this province is that it has much higher income that what should be possible. Normally a province generates 1 gold for every 100 population a province contains. This province generates 43.6 gold too much. Or if you account for the fact that the province loses 5% of its income due to the heat then it might even be 50g too much. It took a long time for me to figure out why this was so. There are no visible mines in the province. And positive sites tend not to do anything unless you find them or unless they modify scales. Eventually, after a long while, I remembered that there is a random event that increases the income of a province by 50g permanently. This province must have gotten that event while it was still owned by the indies.

Anyway, I send my other expansion force of 5 giants to it and reinforces it with 28 points of PD.

You have probably noticed that I'm building a lot of PD. This might seem strange as most people consider Fomoria to have terrible PD. And in a way they are right. For the first 19 points of PD Fomoria only gets one giant militia and one Fir Bolg slinger per point of PD. The secret is that the PD gets much better at 20+. There, it will also get 2 Fir Bolg Warriors per point and those things are awesome. Furthermore, slingers are good versus the naked troops of Marverni and they all have between 12-13 MR, witch is great against R'lyeh.

I send some fresh giants up towards the future front. Meanwhile the mercs and those giants too far away to get to the possible war in time, get to continue to expand. I finally remember to split the southern expansion army in to two, but I do not attack downward as that would put me inside the cap circle of whoever lives there. It is a bit strange that they have not yet captured a province located next to their capitol. But never the less I cant afford a two (three?) way war at this moment so I ignore them.

R'lyeh continues to expand southwards. I can only see 30 troops in the water and none elsewhere so I doubt he is in on any particular attack of Marvernis.

Ever so slowly, militia is being herded towards the capitol for some mysterious purpose....

Oh yea. I should probably state some irrational goals for this Let's Play. I'm told that's a tradition.

Here are my irrational goals that I had for this game:

1.Fomoria must be the biggest! No other nation can have more provinces on the province chart. If they do then I have to rectify that quickly. I will expand like crazy and then remain biggest for the rest of the game.

2.I must have the Isle of Balor. Or possibly Balor must have the Isle of Balor. Whatever.

3.I must never sign a NAP. This is mainly for the sake of the LP. If the wars get predictable then the LP gets boring. This will make for more excitement and random chaos. Although it will make thing hard on me as people tend to gang on the biggest player. Again, whatever.
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