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  #1  
Old February 2nd, 2009, 02:41 PM

mosborne mosborne is offline
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Default Artillery Spotting

Hi:
I imagine this topic has been discussed before, but couldn't find a thread, so maybe I start and some one can point me in the right direction.

I would be curious to know the concept behind artillery spotting.
In the context of developed countries, it would seem that locating artillery would be fairly straight forward with simple trajectory weapons (no inflight corrections).

With the help of Newton's laws and some radar equipment, I would think that pinpointing the origin of any simple shell would be fairly straightforward. Conversly, they would also know a conventional shell vs a non-conventional shell by its flight path. If this is the case, would it make sense to identify all large caliber artillery (I think small caliber shells may not get out of the noise to be seen)once they fire against a superpower like the US, Russia, UK, China, France etc.? Otherwise, are we imposing WWII methods across the board regardless of technical capabilities.

Although, I am sure it its true that the capability of auto artillery detection is not always available, so that may depend on the scenario. If the scenario is part of a bigger theater of operation then the capability could be present, but if it is a smaller scale skirmish, then maybe not, in which case things like helos can be used.

I am guessing that the code change would be to first determine if the capability is present, and if so then enemy artillery is spotted when it fires, but I maybe simplifying things too much.

Thanks
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 05:56 PM

RERomine RERomine is offline
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Default Re: Artillery Spotting

It has been discussed before, at least on the WinSPWW2 forum. For onboard artillery, a cloud of smoke forms over the firing artillery unit. This smoke cloud allows you to pin point any artillery on the board or at least where it fired from in case it moved. Consider the smoke to be a representation of smoke, dust, sound, flashes, etc. that shows were the firing unit is located. By watching the screen, you can see what rounds are coming from where to figure what is actually firing and if you wait long enough, you will probably even have some show up on the screen as spotted.

That's pretty much the best you are going to get, but it seems good enough. The biggest question, at least in PBEM games is, will the guns still be there by the time you get counter battery fire to come in. The AI doesn't really move artillery.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 04:14 AM
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Lightbulb Re: Artillery Spotting

.....but Human Commanders do unless they have lost minds!

Just wait until the updated arty rules come in the next MBT, if you have already had a feel for them in winSPWWII. I'm very curious to see this with modern kit.

Bob out
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 06:29 AM
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Wdll Wdll is offline
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Default Re: Artillery Spotting

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerBob View Post
.....but Human Commanders do unless they have lost minds!

Just wait until the updated arty rules come in the next MBT, if you have already had a feel for them in winSPWWII. I'm very curious to see this with modern kit.

Bob out
updated arty rules?
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 10:19 AM

mosborne mosborne is offline
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Default Re: Artillery Spotting

Thanks, I'll sit tight.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 03:12 AM
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PanzerBob PanzerBob is offline
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Potion Re: Artillery Spotting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerBob View Post
.....but Human Commanders do unless they have lost minds!

Just wait until the updated arty rules come in the next MBT, if you have already had a feel for them in winSPWWII. I'm very curious to see this with modern kit.

Bob out
updated arty rules?
Ah yes my friend, check out the winSPWWII Forum for the info, How this will effect Modern Artillery and vectoring in Airstrkes has got me very curious, I suspect it will really impact on shoot and scoot tactics amongst other tactics all of us have been using in MBT.

Hope to get next turn out after work,

Col Kung Pao sents regards
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Old February 4th, 2009, 03:38 PM

mosborne mosborne is offline
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Default Re: Artillery Spotting

Hi:
This is what I posted in WinSPWW2, hope this is ok to repost.

"I posted a message on mbt and someone mention checking out this forum also. Glad I did.

Walking the line between reality and simulation is not easy. Nor is drawing the line between abstraction and detailing. While reading I could see the battle between these concepts playing out.

I think all the comments are good, but some are good but harmful in the way they are proposed to be implemented. The community on this forum is pretty broad as well as the experience. Trying to translate the broad experience into code though can have some nasty side effects, one of which is to discourage newcomers with too many restrictions, tedious matters, or actions that don't make sense on initial appearance, or inability to use imagination. I think the best wisdom is as someone quoted what the most important rule was - that both sides agree.

I think that as you continue to change the code in hopes of making it better you don't end up pigeon holding everyone into the same mode. I would actually like to see more emphasis on coding what the physics permit and focus more on implementing more capability in the models. I believe that is the path to making both variants even greater. Perhaps even thought should be given to integrating the two. This would allow more resources to focus on one product as oppose to splitting it across two. I am sure they are more alike than different.

I suggest that before you code something out, you consider whether or not there is any possibility of it being done or to rephrase it - if you needed to do it, how would you do it. If you can figure out a way to do it, then don't code it out, because more than likely some one figured out how to do it in real life. Please code in more flexibility, not more restrictions.

I think a great example of flexibility added (which I was overjoyed to see) is the filter for firing, just as an example.
Reading through this thread, there were a lot of artillery features that can be added to make things work more smoothly. It would be nice to specify some artillery patterns as oppose to trying to manually fudge it.

I offer as an alternative to coding in restrictions in how the system operate is to instead add an auditing feature that would allow you to print out a step by step replay of clicks at the end of the challenge. In fact, this could even have some side benefits (more features) of allowing players to create actual tutorials, movies, etc. - flexibility. So now if you want to check cheating - its recorded on video as to who did what when. But I think a feature like this would be worth more than just checking cheating. I suspect that a lot of the coding is already in place and the technology (larger hard disk space) is at hand. People would surely pay for this option alone to save and replay some of their greatest challenges or campaigns.

Thanks for reading."
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