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  #1  
Old October 18th, 2009, 09:45 AM

mosborne mosborne is offline
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Default Bug Wish List

Hi Guys,
Very grateful for the work put in over the years, so please don't take this as a complaint.

I would like to recommend some fixes for the game if possible.

1) I've noticed that artillery units are non-effective in direct fire against infantry with their cannon when played by human, but when played by computer the cannon works. In several games, I fired at an infantry unit (both stationary) in less than 10 hexes with no results using high caliber shells. This seems pretty consistent. No problem with indirect fire.

2) A one man "crew", with pistol only, can suppress a MBT loaded with infantry even after being fired on to the point of retreating by several other units. When a MBT moves next to it, it recovers and makes two close assaults on a MBT, killing half the riders.

"I picture, this one guy running from a tank that is chasing him, with several riders on top with the guy in their sights, then the guy stops running, turns around, pulls out his 9mm and fires at the tank. The tank crew is so shocked that they freeze in their seats having never seen such courage. The riders drop their guns and run for their lives, some falling because of the expert shots from the crew man."

Is there any way to put a check on infantry so that if they don't have an AT weapon then they can't assault armor or if they are retreating and approach by heavy armor they continue to retreat or surrender. As I recall, this is the case with some units (I think scouts with no AT weapons) who instead move out of the way.

3) "Z" fire seems to be overly effective. Recommend either making the unit that is "Z" firing expend 3x the ammo or institute a rule that infantry can not "Z" fire at least, or maybe limit the suppression generation by infantry (infantry can make no suppressions greater than 4 by "Z" firing.

4) I've noticed that sometimes when an infantry unit "Z" fires, it losses the rest of its turn (i.e. no more shots, even though it had 5 to start off with). Perhaps this is another solution to "3" above, but this happens very inconsistently, maybe once or twice during a game, if at all.

I know we had the discussion about the difficulty in getting in to change the code, so no problem if these are too difficult, but just thought I ought to raise them as issues.

Thanks
Mosborne
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  #2  
Old October 18th, 2009, 03:36 PM
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iCaMpWiThAWP iCaMpWiThAWP is offline
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Default Re: Bug Wish List

Most of those have been discussed so many times, it's not codewise to change that
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  #3  
Old October 20th, 2009, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Bug Wish List

I appreciate your concerns but aside from iCaMpWiThAWP the number of people jumping in saying this has bothered them as well is zero especially on the Z fire issue.

Your story about the crewman turning into uber tank killer is interesting but neither Andy nor I have seen this happen to the extent you describe. When I tried to force a crew armed only with pistols into atacking my tank loaded with troops they refused and in two out of five cases ran away. NOT once did I see a crew , armed only with pistols, "recovers and makes two close assaults on a MBT, killing half the riders" Not once. Give them Hand grenades and thats another story. A hand grenade tossed into infantry crowded onto a tank will do nothing nice to the infantry on the tank. That's why infantry don't ride on tanks where enemys may be lurking . As for direct fire arty, after the first shot or two troops are prone and far less vulnerable and therefore hard to kill but yes, after lobbing a dozen 155's into a hex and only causing one casualty can be a bit frustrating so I would suggest this .....

1-If the crew issue is common then there should be NO problem producing a save game for us that shows this.

2-If you believe the AI's use of direct fire arty is that much more affective than the human use of direct fire arty there should be no problem producing a save game that shows that as well and if anyone else wants to get involved with this don't be shy. If it can be proven that the AI gets better results the game WILL be corrected and if you can demonstrate over and over that one man crews are uber tank killers that will be fixed as well





Don

Last edited by DRG; October 20th, 2009 at 12:55 PM..
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Old October 20th, 2009, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Bug Wish List

Well I think the tone gives it away, you wont find these results happen.
Just how often does the AI direct fire its arty anyway & from my experience mainly does vs vehicles with about as much success as I have.

Z fires been done to death & yes to potent more on placement than effect though but cant see how to improve without a new game engine. Sometimes you can target hexes you realy shouldnt be able to so dont.

On the crew I think you are raising a few issues.
The first is that the unit recovers from retreat status in your turn catching you out.
Seems quite acceptable to me & its fairly rare & probably triggered by a nearby freindly doing something. When it happens its your fault anyway for not suppressing enough in the first place.
Infantry without dedicated AT weapons had better be high exp morale?or they will run rather than assault
Crews (no idea how many men dont look) will sometimes attack a vehicle if it moves adjacent, the chances of a vehicle kill is nearly zero might immob an open top if very lucky, standard result is probably both units suppresed. Cant say what happens with riders running up against a crew as dont do but that result sounds about what I would expect from having riders get caught out vs other units. They die fast 3/4 or whole unit wiped out seems fairly common when I target them.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 01:31 PM

mosborne mosborne is offline
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Default Re: Bug Wish List

Hi again.
Thanks for the feedback, and agree it was my fault for doing a silly thing in the first place. But the way I see it. If you are one guy running away with a tank and a load of men aiming their guns at you as they approach. The running man is not going to surprise the tank or the men riding before he is killed. Remember he is in plain view of the tank with passengers as well as 30+ other men in various units who recently fired on him. So I was suggesting some kind of check (even though I know it won't happen for reasons previously stated) to ensure a bit more practicality. No way, will I be able to duplicate this one. However, I think there are plenty of cases where a retreating squad rallies and destroys the vehicle when it moves next to it. I would suggest this be modified in any case, as this should not happen when there are support units around. I would suggest limiting the auto rally from retreat when a vehicle moves next to it to only situations where the retreating unit is unspotted by 1 unit or less at the time of attack.

None-the-less, next time, I'll just do what I should have done in the first place.

WRT to the artillery, I'll try to put together an example. Although I did save the game, I would need to give out my password in order to do it and prefer not to have to gen another.

The particular case for this one was a enemy paratroop drop on my artillery locations. So of course I had a big smile on my face as I lined up my artillery tubes on some paratroopers and to my surprise, it was like I never fired at them. They were still in the ready or pinned state. No losses even after putting 10+ rounds into them. I figure high explosives fired from almost point blank range should make the head spin, but no luck. Fortunately, mgs and autocannons were available. Yet I have seen one of these do a number on a squad when computer controlled. Nothing wrong with the computer control though, it does what it is suppose to do. There seems to be a bug somewhere with the direct fire routine under human control. Like I said, though, I'll do some testing and post, as this is not the first time this has happen, also, not limited to this version of the game. I've seen it happen in all versions currently out. This is just the first time I felt I should report it.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Bug Wish List

On the arty think you just got consecutive bad roles as in bad luck, was against an elite unit also if Para, Arty tends not to be that good direct firing iron sights an all. Not really thought about but if a fire exchange takes place between an arty piece & squad in LMG range I would expect the squad to win. Under 150m its a no brainer unless the gun gets lucky as its crew is bunched round that nice big target. The squad on the other hand unless it has a death wish will be spread out in the hex.
For a true test units must be identical as in same exp arty inf skills as effects outcome but you still need to do quite a lot like a 100 shots min to cut the random factor down.

On vehicle moving adj to runners does this help.
1) Even open terrain is not flat 50m hex the crew has vanished from sight for a moment & had enough, hes going to die anyway may as well take someone with him instead of running.
2) In a squads case one guy becoming a bit heroic may well cause his budies to assist, lots of cases of 1 man turning a fire fight fool hero or just desperate your call.
3) Why should units only recover at the end of the turn makes it less gamey that they do something as about to become strawberry jam. If you were running & about to be caught might you not decide to fire back & riders are hard to miss.
4) Its a 3 minute turn one shot from the crews pistol does not represent one bullet fired he has taken some shots & perhaps changed cover in that volley. Elated by his success he then tries again as they bail out & pays the price.
5) The riders are doing there best to stay on the damn thing on anything but a paved road do you really think they are firing at him
6) On that point the logical thing would be to stop & let them bail & kill him me thinks. They could also see if he had any freinds before remounting & bouncing along or more likely would carry on on foot.
Realise you are probably trying to overtake & cut off but you need to know exactly whats there to do so or risk a tank & infantry in a very exposed position as in riding to kill a few men. If thats what you are doing a safer option is to drive past them not adj & unload. Now fire at all targets to keep them running & let the squad kill them as they run into his arms. I say safer but an ATGM MMG anything really could ruin your day if you dont know its there.
7) As a thought & no idea here the routers may be more likely to recover because the tank has riders which are an easy kill.

Last edited by Imp; October 24th, 2009 at 04:04 PM..
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Old October 28th, 2009, 02:26 PM

Firestorm Firestorm is offline
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Default Re: Bug Wish List

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosborne View Post
2) A one man "crew", with pistol only, can suppress a MBT loaded with infantry even after being fired on to the point of retreating by several other units. When a MBT moves next to it, it recovers and makes two close assaults on a MBT, killing half the riders.

"I picture, this one guy running from a tank that is chasing him, with several riders on top with the guy in their sights, then the guy stops running, turns around, pulls out his 9mm and fires at the tank. The tank crew is so shocked that they freeze in their seats having never seen such courage. The riders drop their guns and run for their lives, some falling because of the expert shots from the crew man."

Is there any way to put a check on infantry so that if they don't have an AT weapon then they can't assault armor or if they are retreating and approach by heavy armor they continue to retreat or surrender. As I recall, this is the case with some units (I think scouts with no AT weapons) who instead move out of the way.
But, then I wouldn't be able to knock out Abrams tanks with my hordes of rock-throwing protestors.
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