.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

winSPWW2- Save $6.00
World Supremacy- Save $8.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT > TO&Es
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old December 1st, 2018, 01:45 AM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 1,797
Thanks: 320
Thanked 676 Times in 505 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: IDF OOB project.

Just walked in the door so, first off my apologies to Amit and Don I got systems crossed with missiles.

That being properly done, I think and in keeping with established practice "David's Sling" should be used in naming the Med Range. Yes it uses the "Stunner" missile, however, the "Patriot" is a Missile System not a missile it actually uses the MIM-104missile and now the newer "PAC-3 MSE.

The PATRIOT System has also since inception used the STANDARD, PAC-2 ATM, GEM-T and GEM-C missiles.
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...014patriot.pdf


This is marketing no one remembers MIM-104 but most everyone knows the PATRIOT System as the also "PATRIOT" missile.

Have a great weekend!

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old December 1st, 2018, 03:05 AM
gingertanker's Avatar

gingertanker gingertanker is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 181
Thanks: 48
Thanked 94 Times in 63 Posts
gingertanker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Pat re read the post pls. I wrote that the weapon should be named Stunner. The unit David's Sling.
__________________
The best terrain for tank operations is terrain devoid of anti tank weapons.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gingertanker For This Useful Post:
  #103  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 02:45 AM
gingertanker's Avatar

gingertanker gingertanker is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 181
Thanks: 48
Thanked 94 Times in 63 Posts
gingertanker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Okay so now we reach ATGMs. As with everything else this is quite a mess. The issues are not only in dates but also in formations...
I first want to draw a broad stroke of ATGM usage by IDF and please let me know if something is unclear before I move on to dealing with the units, as probably it will take your understanding and experience in building formations and units to fix at least some of the mess.

Chronology(missing some esoteric stuff that really does not matter):
In the late 50s and early 60s the IDF purchased several hundreds or maybe thousands of SS-10, Cobra and SS-11 missiles.

After 1973 it captured AT-3 missiles and bought/got TOW missiles from the USA.

In the mid/late 70s it bought/got Dragon missiles from the USA

In the early 80s it started to use locally produced missiles that will eventually be know as the SPIKE series.

Formations:

The SS-10/11 and Cobra actually belonged to the Artillery, and were organized in a special unit. This unit was later discontinued when the IDF was disappointed with the performance of early ATGMs, but not before it saw some fighting in 1967. One could say this unit was the foundation of the "Orev" companies.

Following the impressive performance of Arab and specifically Egyptian ATGMs in the 1973 war, the IDF reorganized ATGM companies. Equipped with Sagger but mainly TOW missiles, eventually each infantry brigade (standing and reserve) would get such a company. These were semi-elite troops used not only in the AT role but also as recce elements when needed.

Some time after that, in the mid-late 70s the Dragon missile started arriving. As it was a short range missile it was adopted into the battalion level, in the support/weapons company level. Because the TOW was named "Orev" (raven), the units were named Orev Company.

In the early 80s when the first early SPIKEs were online, they were organized into a unit in the artillery core (what is old is new again, eh?).

So in the early or mid 80s we see the hierarchy of IDF AT/ATGMs as it basically is to today:
Level 1 : RPGs/LAWs at the squad and platoon level of rifle companies.
Level 2 : Short range ATGM (Dragon) platoon at in the battalion weapons company.
Level 3 : Long range ATGM (TOW) company on 4WD vehicles or APCs at the brigade
level 4 : NLOS ATGM unit as a strategic asset.

Current weapons:
Level 1 was covered previously.
Level 2: The Dragon was replaced by the SPIKE MR
Level 3: The TOW was replaced by the SPIKE LR or ER
Level 4: SPIKE NLOS remains, although upgraded

I just wanted to make this pre-post to make sure we have all the general frame before we go forward.
__________________
The best terrain for tank operations is terrain devoid of anti tank weapons.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 06:13 AM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 9,529
Thanks: 1,718
Thanked 2,558 Times in 1,354 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: IDF OOB project.

The branch of the service is really irrelevant for game purposes so they will not be changed as to where they are offered in the game ( as an infantry units Vs Artillery ). They are either "AT" or "ATGM" depending mainly on if they are guided or not and the date they go in and out of service depends on if one day all were removed and replaced by a new type or the new one was phased in gradually.

Don't expect to match game reality and RL reality exactly. You can post your suggestions and I will determine how they will best be integrated into the game ..or not
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DRG For This Useful Post:
  #105  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 07:36 AM
gingertanker's Avatar

gingertanker gingertanker is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 181
Thanks: 48
Thanked 94 Times in 63 Posts
gingertanker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Oh I am not trying to match anything I am merely setting the stage for me to go deeper into it. The reason I am detailing where the different systems were used is in case it affects formations in some way. For instance if Dragon is only available to para weapons companies but should in fact be available to other weapon companies.

Matching reality is impossible.
__________________
The best terrain for tank operations is terrain devoid of anti tank weapons.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old December 4th, 2018, 12:26 PM
shahadi's Avatar

shahadi shahadi is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: I ain't in Kansas anymore, just north of where Dorothy clicked her heels is where you'll find me.
Posts: 819
Thanks: 479
Thanked 214 Times in 160 Posts
shahadi is on a distinguished road
Post Re: IDF OOB project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingertanker View Post
Unit 138 Shipon is quite a challenge. The Shipon is indeed around from 2000 or 2003, depending who you ask...But it's not serving like the LAW or RPG-7. It is fielded by special forces. It's use in the OOB as a Inf-AT unit is problematic. Is there some solution you can think of? It is also worth mentioning that the weapon itself (Weapon 19) has weird stats. For one thing Shipon is a tandem warhead rocket but it is not classed like that. Also it's accuracy is identical to the RPG-7 in the Israeli OOB, but really it should be far higher. The SMAW in the US OOB is based on the B-300 like the Shipon, and is a cousin of Shipon. It has 10 accuracy in game while Shipon has 5...Shipon, it is worth noting, has a LRF and digital FCS...
I am not suggesting anything just sharing the info waiting for replies.
In my scenario, "I Bring the Sword" the shipon is fielded. Now, am I correct that the SMAW from OOB12 or the USMC (OOB13) variant maybe substituted for the Shipon?


Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old December 5th, 2018, 07:06 AM
Suhiir's Avatar

Suhiir Suhiir is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,261
Thanks: 235
Thanked 496 Times in 384 Posts
Suhiir is on a distinguished road
Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Till the recent improvements (laser sight, RF, etc.) the SMAW used a spotter round (9mm) unlike the Shipon, thus was pretty accurate as you could be sure the SMAW would hit where the spotter round did.
__________________
Suhiir - Wargame Junkie

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old December 7th, 2018, 09:42 AM
gingertanker's Avatar

gingertanker gingertanker is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 181
Thanks: 48
Thanked 94 Times in 63 Posts
gingertanker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: IDF OOB project.

still here just busy weeks. be back to reply in 6 days or so.
__________________
The best terrain for tank operations is terrain devoid of anti tank weapons.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gingertanker For This Useful Post:
  #109  
Old December 13th, 2018, 03:31 AM
gingertanker's Avatar

gingertanker gingertanker is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 181
Thanks: 48
Thanked 94 Times in 63 Posts
gingertanker is on a distinguished road
Default Re: IDF OOB project.

We will be back on track soon but it seems I made a mistake.

I said no Spike on the Namer and Eitan unmanned turret.

Well:
https://www.israelhayom.co.il/articl...piNS9HqtJ7pPmA

So yeah....
__________________
The best terrain for tank operations is terrain devoid of anti tank weapons.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gingertanker For This Useful Post:
  #110  
Old December 13th, 2018, 11:24 AM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 9,529
Thanks: 1,718
Thanked 2,558 Times in 1,354 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Nifty little set up and it would appear that this turret will be used on both the Namer IFV and the Eitan IFV
__________________

Last edited by DRG; December 13th, 2018 at 11:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2018, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.