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  #41  
Old January 22nd, 2020, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH View Post
About ABRAMS FEP, when I was asked to look into this (And that started the ball rolling on all things ABRAMS last year.), my biggest issue was the speculation that it included armor improvement plan (Some early refs suggested this possibility.) as well. I can't tell you how many hours I put into just that tank alone sorting through the data. The answer was simple and stared me right in the face ready? USMC A1M1 FEP or Firepower Enhancement Program that is all.
Concerning the APS. when comes to the USMC tanks, those improvements follow the ARMY that funds them.

Taking the last sentence of the above para into account, I feel that the USMC might have a platoon or company testing them due to the unique operating environment they'll be transported in and possibly used.
Pretty much my understanding as well.
The FEP upgrade was NOT an armor upgrade, merely a targeting, fire control, and vision systems upgrade. That said, while they were upgrading the fire control systems they also upgraded any M1A1s that were not already the HC (Heavy Common) variant to that variant. And upgraded all of them to the latest (at the time) HC variant, armor wise.

As to Trophy, yes, some systems were acquired, and deployed in the Mid East, how many I'm unsure, but the USMC didn't have that many tanks over there so probably enough for most, if not all of them. And, yes, it was basically live fire field testing. I wouldn't expect general employment until the US Army adopts them (buy them in bulk via the US Army contract).
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  #42  
Old January 22nd, 2020, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

And before you ask, I copies the armor ratings for the M1A1HC from US Army unit# 886 M1A1 SA which does not have the uranium armor layer (or so I'm led to believe).
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  #43  
Old January 23rd, 2020, 01:25 AM
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Fallout Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

Well with due respect, this answer might be a good news/bad news situation.

The USA has been using DU Armor since 1988 which pretty much covers the operational period of the M1A1. That's the "good news"!

The bad "bad news" possibly, is that your USMC (And I hope to you know who, this doesn't apply to the USA M1A1 MBT's) MBT's armor ratings might be under valued as compared to their Army versions.

The term MIA1 SA is applied as the M1A1 Situational Awareness and that's where that comes in.

The export versions of all models of the ABRAMS DO NOT come with DU armor. Though by example IRAQ got the improved M1A1 SA as well.

It's why the Iraqis had such a hard time killing ours, which he mentions with the stats which I believe was 18 damaged from all reasons and 9 of those were beyond repair.

I also posted about the USA training with the M1A1 SA just up the road from me at Ft. Stewart, Ga. around Mar/Apr timeframe this past year.

This ref. as I've posted often and pointed when it shows up elsewhere is still considered "the go" to ref. for ABRAMS. And it isn't bad for the rest it covers as well. It's well done and well researched which is why it's in my favorites.
http://id3486.securedata.net/fprado/...ite/abrams.htm
(Look under M1A1 "PROTECTION" section.)
https://www.army.mil/article/17811/a...lt_at_anniston
https://www.businessinsider.com/army...s-tanks-2018-4
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/201...6151522947894/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2EdlLYV6qs
https://www.armyrecognition.com/unit...res_video.html
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...m-more-lethal/

(Last sounds like FEP to me.)

Regards,
Pat


Postscript: Seeing stuff saying the FEP is the top tier tank for the USMC now.

But just happened upon this which about 4 or 5 paras down discusses the differences between the USA and USMC tanks such as the USMC tanks are built with a "deep fording" capability. Could come in handy when "hitting the beach" I would think.
https://www.army.mil/article/1699/ar...o_marine_corps

Anyway I'm beat now and my "bonus" night home won't be wasted, so I'm off to the rack!

Good Night or Good Morning!!
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; January 23rd, 2020 at 01:48 AM..
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  #44  
Old January 23rd, 2020, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

The problem is I don't have any solid information concerning the "HC" version of the M1A1, does it have DU or is it the same as the export version which doesn't? I haven't seen anything referring to the export versions as HA, HC, or anything else that leads me to believe they're anything but the latest version of non-DU armor.

On the assumption (I did in a previous post mention "educated guesses") looking at the first M1A1 (1987) and the M1A1(HA) (1989) and the M1A2's from 2010 and 2017 the M1A1 SA sort of split the difference so I went with that. Might be I should have used the 2010 M1A2's armor values (since I assume all US Army M1's a "heavy armor").

*shrugs*
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  #45  
Old January 23rd, 2020, 12:43 PM
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Fallout Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

Alright short and sweet, I gotta get my walk in before work.

1) M1 - Think we're all good here. CHOMBHAM Armor/Same MG as LAST M-60 series but with more advanced ammo.

2) M1A1 - Same armor as above (Slightly improved.)/Performance and "Ride" upgrades and the first to have the 120mm MG.

3) M1A1 HA (Heavy Armor) USA (First to have DU Armor. As used in the Gulf War 1991.), M1A1 HC (Heavy Common) USMC and the M1A1D are the same tank!! This is as the armor values are concerned in the 2002 time period. That time period should fall into the 2nd GEN DU Armor period for the U.S.

In fact the Armor Site even shows them together!!! Why do I even bother posting these refs?????

But what I verified is separate from that site.

4) The M1A1 FEP has HC 3rd Gen DU Armor. Match that to it's corresponding USA ABRAMS and you'll get a better handle on where the armor values stand for the M1A1 FEP.

NO POOPEY when I say start your search with the M1A2 SEP.

USMC HC 3rd Gen DU Armor might be a good search point to start from.

I'm walking!!

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; January 23rd, 2020 at 01:39 PM..
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  #46  
Old January 23rd, 2020, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

From what I can see and understand what is in USMC and USA after a couple of minor corrections is good enough. I had added a new additional Abrams Icon for the Trophy versions in all three seasons
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  #47  
Old January 23rd, 2020, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH View Post
3) M1A1 HA (Heavy Armor) USA (First to have DU Armor. As used in the Gulf War 1991.), M1A1 HC (Heavy Common) USMC and the M1A1D are the same tank!! This is as the armor values are concerned in the 2002 time period. That time period should fall into the 2nd GEN DU Armor period for the U.S.

In fact the Armor Site even shows them together!!! Why do I even bother posting these refs?????
Because like me you're a nit-picker?
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  #48  
Old January 23rd, 2020, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

With FASTBOATs info we have:

Unit# 463 M1A1HC TUSK FEP - Armor Steel=65/12/9/90/30/15/8 HEAT=105/69/30/162/52/33/16 Reactive=0/14/0/0/14/14/0
Unit# 464 M1A1HC TUSK FEP - Armor Steel=65/12/9/90/30/15/8 HEAT=105/69/30/162/52/33/16 Reactive=0/14/0/0/14/14/0
Unit# 465 M1A1HC FEP - Armor Steel=65/12/9/90/30/15/8 HEAT=105/69/30/162/52/33/16 Reactive=0/0/0/0/0/0/0
Unit# 466 M1A1HC FEP - Armor Steel=65/12/9/90/30/15/8 HEAT=105/69/30/162/52/33/16 Reactive=0/0/0/0/0/0/0
Unit# 467 M1A1HC FEP - Armor Steel=65/12/9/90/30/15/8 HEAT=105/69/30/162/52/33/16 Reactive=0/0/0/0/0/0/0
Unit# 468 M1A1HC FEP - Armor Steel=65/12/9/90/30/15/8 HEAT=105/69/30/162/52/33/16 Reactive=0/0/0/0/0/0/0
Unit# 469 M1A1HC MCBS FEP - Armor Steel=65/12/9/90/30/15/8 HEAT=165/69/30/162/52/33/16 Reactive=0/0/0/0/0/0/0
Unit# 561 M1A1HC MCBS FEP - Armor Steel=65/12/9/90/30/15/8 HEAT=165/69/30/162/52/33/16 Reactive=0/0/0/0/0/0/0

Time to "properly" armor the USMC! (i.e. reduce it)
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  #49  
Old January 23rd, 2020, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

Do you have any idea what a PITA it is to read 8 full armour ratings packed together like that???

It's done...........DO NOT change your mind..........
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  #50  
Old January 24th, 2020, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: WinSPMBT v13 Corrections

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It's done...........DO NOT change your mind..........
Hey!
I was happy with it as was, it's FASTBOATs fault, he's the one that found and linked the data together
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