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  #1  
Old December 3rd, 2011, 09:22 PM
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Default Patriot Area (AA) Don't Belong in Game

Patriot type area air defence systems should not belong in the game or be off-map formations at best. They are strategic area air defence and do not belong on a small (10km * 8km) (6.25mile * 5mile) or smaller sandbox.

Also the support and logistic required for these complex systems is huge. ie. Radar system unit, control system unit, power generator unit, mast/antennae unit and missile unit.

These systems are used to defend theaters of operation against mostly ballistic weapons.

I have no problem with MANPADS/SPAAD ie.Stinger,Roland

What do you think?
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Patriot Area (AA) Don't Belong in Game

I can't remember the last time I actually used a patriot missle system in a PBEM,if ever.

But they need to be there for sceneario's and campaigns against the AI.

I don't have a problem with them being used on a larger sized map,even if not realistic.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Patriot Area (AA) Don't Belong in Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by EOT View Post
Patriot type area air defence systems should not belong in the game or be off-map formations at best. They are strategic area air defence and do not belong on a small (10km * 8km) (6.25mile * 5mile) or smaller sandbox.

Also the support and logistic required for these complex systems is huge. ie. Radar system unit, control system unit, power generator unit, mast/antennae unit and missile unit.

These systems are used to defend theaters of operation against mostly ballistic weapons.

I have no problem with MANPADS/SPAAD ie.Stinger,Roland

What do you think?
They have a perfectly valid reason to be made available to the player. They can fire at off-map aircraft that will be using PGM strikes against you. They can fire at high level bombers, if he uses such. Many SHORADS do not have the required range to do so.

They are also optional, so if you do not see the need - simply do not buy.

No, the clutter of such a battery is not modelled, since they are merely a representation of an asset for game purposes. SP does not have separate radar vehicles for example. Unnecessary clutter.

The gypsy caravan of really useful(tm) vehicles at say battalion/brigade HQ are not modelled either. No water bowsers, generators, head shed vehicles, no battalion post office or pay clerks or mess teams. No cooks and bottle washers. No medical units, graves registration, NBC decontamination, padre etc. No mechanics. No refuelling assets. Nor do you have to sit through endless "Death by Powerpoint" briefings at the Head Shed, either.

This is a wargame for casual civilian users, and not a simulation of brigade administration for use in a command post HQ by professional militaries. SP is a form of military chess.

If you want more realistic wargames, which require much more user planning and adherence to the use of orders templates and so on and so forth, try the ProSim games also available here at Shrapnel, e.g. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ProSIM/ATF/ATF_page.html. Demos are available. But be aware that you will have to do a lot more pre-game admin, and at least have a vague idea of a game plan set up before you even get to shuffle your war toys about the battlefield, especially if it is not a pre-rolled scenario.

The SP games are more like the original Wargames Research Group 1930-50 set that were used in competitions from the 70s through the 80s world-wide. A simple set of rules that players gould get a game up and running e.g. at a competition or club game without reams of pre-game planning. Then WRG introduced their new improved set in the late 80s, with added Command and Control layer with its "modes" and "phases" for formations, elements and what have you. That set never took off, players were simply baffled by the 8 or so pages of that, and so the Table Top Games (TTG) "Challenger" (Modern) and "Firefly" (WW2) rules became the competition/club standard.

The SP system is designed as an immediately accessible game system. It uses approximations for some complex systems, such as night fighting gear, reducing the unneeded administrative complexity while retaining the flavour of such systems, and above all their tactical relevance in actual game play.

The SP system allows players to "buy and go" reasonably quickly, with little or no forward planning pre-game. Just like the original WRG tabletop rules and the later TTG ones did - and the later WRG system alienated. Hence the popularity of these systems for the majority of wargamers.

These simplifications and approximations do tend to irritate some "rivet-counter" types, but those players are not the target audience of the game system. SP3 for example had an extremely simplistic orders system, which probably 90% of end users found far too much for them to get their heads around and so turned off.

There is probably a market out there (of 2 or 3 real rivet counters? ) for a game which makes you run the battalion KP platoon's potato-peeling duty (in photo-realistic 3D), and counts the potatoes produced towards battalion morale or whatever. But this one is not one of them.

Cheers
Andy
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Old December 4th, 2011, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Patriot Area (AA) Don't Belong in Game

Thanks for the link Andy!!
I just got kitchen duties for the weekend, my Sgt. told me some General visited our lines and wasn't impressed at what he saw.
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