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  #1  
Old March 17th, 2010, 03:30 PM

dmnt dmnt is offline
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Bug Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

Happened to me and my friend twice in our battle: A fighter jet targets an AA cannon which happened to be loaded on a truck just before the air strike. The missile then targets hex (-1,-1) destroying and wounding all troops that have been loaded to aircrafts, trucks, barges etc.

My opponent, having paratroops is pissed to the greatest extent. Maybe the pgm logic needs to be revised to include special handling of troops that have been loaded to another unit.
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  #2  
Old March 17th, 2010, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

Let's see if I fully understand the problem here. When a target has been loaded the aircraft attacks hex (-1,-1) and all loaded troops everywhere on the map are destroyed??

Nobody has ever reported anything like this. Do you have a saved game ?

Don
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  #3  
Old March 17th, 2010, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmnt View Post
Happened to me and my friend twice in our battle: A fighter jet targets an AA cannon which happened to be loaded on a truck just before the air strike. The missile then targets hex (-1,-1) destroying and wounding all troops that have been loaded to aircrafts, trucks, barges etc.

My opponent, having paratroops is pissed to the greatest extent. Maybe the pgm logic needs to be revised to include special handling of troops that have been loaded to another unit.
Targets a loaded AAA gun? With what exactly?. An LGB is different from say a HARM, and both differ from bombs or cannons.

If a HARM - did the AA thing have radar FC? (could be the problem?). Passengers are loaded in the enemy turn, and weapons are fired in your turn, so they cannot (should not !) fire on somebody 'just loaded up'.

However actual details, and preferably a save game that can recreate this. One just after the strike is of course, worthless. The event has passed. I need the save game just before the strike pass happens to debug.

Otherwise, both nations involved, date of battle, battle type, and what exactly fired exactly what weapon at what target is a good start for investigation.

Cheers
Andy
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Old March 18th, 2010, 10:11 AM
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Exclamation Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

It looks like I have been able to recreate this but I had to do a lot of guessing about what type of units were involved. We'll look into this but next time PLEASE include all the relavant info like which nations, what year that the target was using radar and that it was a SEAD Strike etc etc etc

OK ??

Also, I have been unable to see any evidence of this "destroying and wounding all troops that have been loaded to aircrafts, trucks, barges etc."

I have seen ONE none target unit damaged or destroyed but never multiples so perhaps you could help us by explaining exactly what you saw ??

Don
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  #5  
Old March 18th, 2010, 03:53 PM

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Default Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
It looks like I have been able to recreate this but I had to do a lot of guessing about what type of units were involved. We'll look into this but next time PLEASE include all the relavant info like which nations, what year that the target was using radar and that it was a SEAD Strike etc etc etc
We were playing FIN-RUS assault (RUS assaulting) 5/2010 with slightly modified Finnish OOB from Zipuli. IIRC the units in question are not modified in any way. I think I have the saved game, just prior to the strike still here.

The gun was Finnish 35mm Itk 88 with radar (Fire control 110) which was loaded in to the truck just prior to the air strike.

The fighter was Su-34 armed with Kh-31 ARMs. SEAD strike if I understand the concepts properly.

My opponent wrote the following:
Quote:
The year is 2010, countries are Finland and Russia.
The airstrike in question was a SEAD strike, made with Russian SU-34.
I think it tries to launch an ARM, but can't be totally sure since it's hard
to get full info on what happened purely by replay.

In any case, this has happened twice, both times I've had some of my airplanes
waiting for a drop. This last time I only got two, none of which have any cargo,
last time I had my whole fully (bin) laden air armada waiting for green light.

The SEAD plane tries to target a radar (as far as I can tell by looking at the
replay), the missile goes to -1,-1 and explodes there killing almost everything.
Even the unit list shows that everyone that's been loaded to any kind of vehicle
is destroyed. I checked a couple of BMP's and a chopper, but they had their cargo
intact (perhaps because each had only one squad aboard), and my hovercrafts also looked
like fully lade so I figured it was only a nasty little bug that didn't actually do
anything but scare us, but then came the airdrop. Or more accurately didn't since every
single plane was totally empty. Then Dmnt informed me that when he tried to unload
his troops they took instant casualties, and we decided to pull the plug on this one
and start a new one.

And the second time this happened was pretty much similar.
Plane (Su-34 or Su-30) tries to fire an ARM (I think), which goes to -1,-1, but now when I checked my vehicles
I noticed that all had lost most if not all of their infantry passengers.
Or at least the passenger count had dropped drastically.

My guess would be that this has something to do with locking on to a radar but not finding
any suitable target

You'll be getting a save file to work on after we finish this.

Last edited by dmnt; March 18th, 2010 at 04:03 PM..
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Old March 19th, 2010, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

OK. Don't bother with a save game the test games we have shows this well enough. The radar signature for those guns is not being shut down when they are loaded but in game code terms when a unit is a passenger it goes to -1,-1 to wait for the time it unloads. When the aircraft fires it's ARM it finds the signature of those loaded radar AA guns at -1,-1 and when the missile explodes it affects everything in -1,-1 and if you have dozens of other units waiting there you get the result you are now familiar with

We now know why it's happening. What we don't understand is how this could have existed for so long with nobody reporting it before now. If may be that nobody ever loaded a radar AA gun in a truck before a SEAD strike was called in. However. it will be fixed for the patch due out by the end of the month

Don
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  #7  
Old March 20th, 2010, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

Eh, I might have reported something that might be similar, a while ago.
Or I forgot to do so.

Basically having a plane fire a missile to something outside the map and not only hitting and killing that single unit, but other units that were off map too (retreated, or never placed on the map to begin with etc)

It rarely happens, perhaps once every 15-20 battles or so, if that.

I don't know if it is what the OP was talking about, but I guess I hope it is.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll View Post
Eh, I might have reported something that might be similar, a while ago.
Or I forgot to do so.

Basically having a plane fire a missile to something outside the map and not only hitting and killing that single unit, but other units that were off map too (retreated, or never placed on the map to begin with etc)

It rarely happens, perhaps once every 15-20 battles or so, if that.

I don't know if it is what the OP was talking about, but I guess I hope it is.
Do you happen to recall if it was launching an Anti Radiation Missile at a radar-equipped AAA target that was currently loaded on a truck?. (We have recreated that one in a test game for debug. Regular PGM won't target a passenger unit).


Cheers
Andy
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  #9  
Old March 20th, 2010, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

I can't be 100% certain, though I will make sure to write down any detail when/if it happens again.
Chances are that it wasn't such a case because I don't normally use air defenses that require a truck, but don't take my word for it since I just don't remember.
If it happens again I will let you know. The only certain info that I can give you is that it is always in modern battles since I 99.9% of the time only play modern battles and I am talking about PBEM games.
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  #10  
Old March 20th, 2010, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Air-to-surface missile targeting a loaded unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll View Post
I can't be 100% certain, though I will make sure to write down any detail when/if it happens again.
Chances are that it wasn't such a case because I don't normally use air defenses that require a truck,

We're thinking that the reason this one's slipped by for so long is most times people don't move AA guns around and for this one to show itself you need an AA gun with Radar FC and you need an attacking aircraft with and anti-radiation missle and then you need to load the AA gun in a truck after it's been targeted which is not a common series of events. When the missile trys to find that gun it finds it at -1,-1 along with all the rest of the passenger units.

Don
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