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  #201  
Old January 21st, 2018, 10:32 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

The home stretch, there was an issue concerning the ADF TIGER Helos and it is my thinking it was a date issue at the time. This came to my attention when if you remember, we had made many corrections concerning ADF Armor and ultimately their TO&E with the help of a serving member of the ADF via email which has all been posted in this Thread and MBT one as well, as again, I migrate these inputs back into their "home" threads once Don has indicated he's done with them or after the Patch gets released.

This would be an appropriate time to maintain Don's sanity at this point how I've generally come across these. It simply has to do with the connection between the things I've already found i.e. Israel's A-4 lead to Australia's A-4 same with the F-5 and so on. But the other thing I always do is manually search the OOB for any copies of the UNIT my focus is currently on or close to that might need a change of some kind.

So for Don, rest assured that after these items are taken care of, I'll stay away from REVIEWING AN FURTHER OOB's!!

So back to...

Australia/UNITS 457-460/TIGER ARH/MULTI-UNIT PICTURES AS NOTED//
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Australia/UNITS 461 & 462/TIGER ARH-AT/SINGLE UNIT PICTURES//
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This last I've had with the rest, it demonstrates some defensive characteristics of modern helos. And you should've seen the Swiss PUMA one I found releasing their "ANGEL FIRE" trail as it was climbing to clear a mountain. Anyway...
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Alright the SWISS ARE NEXT...

Regards,
Pat
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  #202  
Old January 21st, 2018, 10:52 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

I hate drawings for UNITS and I'll reserve any further opinion on the matter, however, I do realize especially for new types of equipment a drawing (SIM or otherwise.) or model might have to stand in for a temporary period of time. Though these would very rare occurrences. but I have pictures!!

Switzerland/UNITS 151-153/F-5E/NEW PICTURES//
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I messed up with this one, it's just a COUGAR. See how they fly...
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Regards,
Pat
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  #203  
Old January 21st, 2018, 11:33 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Sliding into home plate...

To finish off Switzerland...

Switzerland/UNITS 843, 853 & 994/F-5E/NEW PICTURES//
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And finally... (To the "MP" fans)-And there was much rejoicing!!

This lead to my final issue Click image for larger version

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CREW SERVED
CHANGE:
France/UNIT 121/MMP/TI-GSR 60/ALL WEAPONS VALUES ARE MISSING//

This ATGW is as good as the TOW ITAS from what I can find or at minimum "darn" close. Like you can't really see much space between my fingers close. I have no real problem with the start date but as my ref points out it did go into initial serial production in JUN 2016. Also ref 2 confirms weapons production back in 2013. I backed off this because I thought it a done deal in the FORUM but, than I've been a "ghost" in this facet of ops for a longtime now.
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/201.../?spt=slh&or=8
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...issile-019729/
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...range-missile/
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.w...ication-phase/
http://www.army-technology.com/featu...siles-4159253/


Don THANK YOU for the opportunity! HeII I even bet our old deadline! A cause for a celebration in of itself - but I'll refrain from that.

Everyone THANK YOU for allowing this process to occur uninterrupted to this point.

I hope a "hint" of how you can make life a little easier for Don has presented itself here at some level. Equipment issues are in some way the most difficult issue to contend with in having to do the calculus for all the values, based on as much data as can reasonably be digested to reach a fair conclusion. We'll never know the truth of it all, if we did and put it out here, I suspect some of us would be "Making BIG rocks into LITTLE ones". Enough said...

And now I to the floor.

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; January 21st, 2018 at 11:50 PM..
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  #204  
Old January 22nd, 2018, 01:49 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

I just had to share these...
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It must really "duck" (Or whatever word you prefer.) to be a pilot in the Swiss military!?!

Got an early start in the morning, much to do so I can enjoy my last day before work!

Good Night!!

Regards,
Pat
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  #205  
Old January 22nd, 2018, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

I added the Chengdu J-20 to the game 6/118.....we can work out exact details later
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  #206  
Old January 23rd, 2018, 01:00 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

I'm up for it. For "GP" FYI, I started the Jets and Planes...Thread 7yrs ago this month. Concerning the J-20 I reported on it when it first showed, while then SECDEF was in China and they did their famous test flight while he was there and beyond.
On Pages 1-3 I posted stories on it 7 times in Posts #3, #9, #10, #16, #19, #20 and #26. Taking into account my mind hasn't changed too much concerning the J-20 from those early Posts.

Before I express that impression, let me start by saying that Russia has backed off their claim that the T-50/PAK FA is a 5th GEN Fighter. That puts it in the class as a 4th GEN+/or+++ where the current GRIPENS are covered in both "+" categories. This is a huge concession by the Russians. And Russian has been building quality fighters for decades now. Where China is concerned they're fairly new players in the field. I can't dismiss the comparison and it'll have some impact on my thinking.

That being said, I don't play favorites out here and anyone who've followed my discussions concerning the F-35 in general know this. So right at this moment and from what I've seen, I think the J-20 TECHNICALLY sits as if you will, as a 3rd GEN ++ (FROM MY PERSPECTIVE ONLY.) fighter.

Please note for the record in the refs out there, those "+ signs" are ONLY used for 4th GEN fighters.

And it's been a while since I've looked in on the fighter so I'll gladly put the spotlight back on the J-20 and see what's changed since JAN 2011.

For now I believe that is a valid start date for the J-20. I'd be curious to see what they've learned since I first looked in on it. This stuff is right up my alley!

And I know exactly the first place to start looking at this from.

Regards,
Pat
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  #207  
Old January 23rd, 2018, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Yeah, I love how the armchair experts are so positive what the F-35s capabilities and limitations are when no out outside the manufacturer and the rather small portion of the military that actually flies and maintains them has any real knowledge.

But then what else is new.

I have no doubt you find what the "experts" have to say about the capabilities of American subs just as amusing.
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  #208  
Old January 28th, 2018, 03:48 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

J-20 Status...

I was going to end this post with the following, however, I feel it needs to start this conversation instead of ending it. So just because it says a jet is STEALTHY does not mean it's a 5th GEN or even a 4th GEN fighter. As I pointed out concerning the IAF A-4 AYIT in my last Patch submission, the simple act of extending the engine exhaust nozzles to reduce it's heat signature by definition makes that plane more stealthy, which again greatly reduced it's losses to IR missiles. Now here's where I'm at concerning the J-20 shofar and where it has lead me as well.

I'm not ready to provide numbers yet. I will concede that the Chinese J-20 fighter is better than an upper tier 3rd GEN fighter (As I thought she was when I first posted on this fighter years ago.) and I'm on the cusp of saying she's a low to mid tier 4th GEN fighter.

I'm still not convinced at this point and time that the J-20 is a 5th GEN fighter. I have provided one of the refs I've looked at to this point. What immediately got my attention was the rear of the plane around the engines in the pictures. They are just screaming "you can shoot me down now", which would be the case as it flies past a SAM site or with a fighter on it's tail.
https://fightersweep.com/6230/analys...hinese-raptor/

The other issue is, the J-20 might STRICKLY just be used as a deep penetration interceptor used to take down aircraft like the P-8 POSIDEAN, AWACS, BOMBERS etc. etc. Though it should be able to fight it's way in and out.

Dogfighting for the J-20 might be an issue to some degree though, it'll be armed with some very effective long and short range Air-to-Air missiles that could to a small degree negate some of those disadvantages.

Though China acquired some plans (Airframe design and some electronics.) of the F-35, it is felt that the key electronics systems haven't been compromised along with the stealth "paint" and other advanced design factors.

Any finally...
Oh I don't doubt I probably missed this in the game manual after three try's in my weary post work environment, so does...

EW for Jets/Planes, is stealth factored into those numbers already, or is that rating based solely on it's electronics and defensive capabilities?

If stealth is factored in, at what % of the whole is used? By example EW 20.

What has become VERY CLEAR is how good the F-22 RAPTOR really is from my research so far. Nothing comes close, the gaps and systems the following abstract talks about have been taken care of. The IRST system and others have been added (Also the F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET will have it. IRST that is.) and I've posted on those improvements for years now to the point we MIGHT need to have an improved version.
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-300309-1.html

From the above...Is the F-15SE better then we think in the game now? I personally have felt this version of the F-15 certainly was a low to mid level 4th GEN Fighter/Bomber and the only one fitting that description except for possibly the Russian SU-35BM data posted after the excerpt. The embolden is mine.

"[3] Boeing F-15SE ‘Silent Eagle’. This low-signature version of the F-15 Eagle was assessed during the compilation of this NOTAM. Its radar cross section, while claimed to be comparable to the export configuration of the F-35 (This again goes to my long held point out here that we're not in the business of giving up our secrets. This is why I close to figuring out what the export version of the AH-64E should look like.) from nose-on is likely to be substantially inferior from other aspects. Its infrared signature will be similar to the standard F-15 Eagle. Thus, the PAK-FA using radar will detect the Silent Eagle at a range sufficient to launch BVR missiles and at similar or greater ranges to the F-35 for infrared-based engagements. Flying wide sweeps and distributing sensor detections as is done for the legacy Sukhois will enhance radar detections and enable IRST ranging. The advantage the F-15SE Silent Eagle has over the F-35 JSF is that it has the aerodynamic performance and fuel reserves to egress from a dangerous air combat engagement."
https://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-35/su-35.htm

So as you can see this issue with the J-20 had no option but to head into the above issues thus far noted.

Also following the J-31 however it looks to have some of the same issues as the J-20.

For comparison...
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Regards,
Pat
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  #209  
Old January 28th, 2018, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Andy would be able to answer this in more detail but the EW numbers are basically the ability to deal with the EW value of SAM's......if your aircraft has a lessor EW value than the missile being fired at it then the missile has the advantage...if the aircraft EW is higher than the SAM that's being fired at it then the aircraft has a better chance of fending off the missile.

Right now based on all the info I've seen I've given the Chengdu J-20 an EW of 10



agreed it **appears** to be aimed at LR strikes of support assets and for that it only needs to be stealthy heading right at you. It has 8 HP's and that's why it has 8 " things that go boom"......IGNORE THE COST SHOWN.....I don't run the cost calc until just before the patch ships
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  #210  
Old January 29th, 2018, 01:34 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Alright had a day of it today, looking no better tomorrow w/a 0745 start. OK, your last post was very helpful and puts things into perspective. I need "to shop" the other key planes I've mentioned already. Focusing more on data type refs than equipment ones. As I mentioned most of this is connected (EW/VISION).

All I need to know is what is my "absolute drop date" to finish this off?

And you know, I fully understand that Andy and yourself are "up against it" certainly by this point.

Given the above date I'll do my absolute best. Early thinking is bumping the J-20 to EW 12. Also going to take a hard look at the F-22 because and this is important, that jet IS the "Gold Standard" for attack aircraft, and will be until and beyond the end of this game as it stands and RL. Game wise to include final Patch work for 2025/2026.

Regards,
Pat
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