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  #1  
Old February 7th, 2018, 07:35 PM
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Default SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

Look at this showrell. Location is definitely identified as Poland 1939 destroyed bridge in Sochaczew by Bzura river which were dismantled by Germans in 1940. By the end of the movie is crossing vehicle very likely looks as SdKfz 250 which were introduced by Wermacht in 1941. Is possible that some prototypes on Demag D7 artillery tractors chasis introduced to production in 1939 were already build as this new transporter and field tested during September Campaign.

https://dobroni.pl/n/sdkfz-250-w-wrzesniu/19161 PL

https://translate.google.pl/translat...-text=&act=url Google Translator EN
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Old February 7th, 2018, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

It does look like a 250 but that's not the clearest bit of video

Wiki claims.....
Quote:
The Sd. Kfz 250 was adopted in 1939 to supplement the standard halftrack. Production delays meant that the first vehicle did not appear until mid-1941
so this may have been one of the protos on a field trial
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Old February 7th, 2018, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

Well something interesting came from that as I was digging around.......Beobachtungskraftwagen Sd.Kfz.253.

New Icons now in the game...
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Old February 8th, 2018, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

If we are in subject of forgotten German vehicles

Saurer RR7 Wermacht name SdKfz 254 Austria infantry transporter produced also after anschluss leter coverted to beobachtung vehicles in north africa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_254
http://www.panzernet.net/panzernet/stranky/auta/254.php
https://www.google.pl/imgres?imgurl=...A4wDg..i&w=500

Sd.Kfz. 247 wheeled infantry transporter in two version Ausf.A 6 rad & Ausf.B 4 rad

https://www.google.pl/imgres?imgurl=...act=mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.pl/imgres?imgurl=...act=mrc&uact=8
http://zonwar.ru/bronetexnika/armore...47_Ausf_B.html
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Old February 8th, 2018, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

The German OOB is full. The only reason I could get the 253 in was there were already two units using the 250/12 and the 250/12 was a Arty observer vehicle but so is the 253 but the 253 entered service earlier than the 250/12 AND it's fully enclosed so it was an easy fit
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Old February 9th, 2018, 07:33 PM

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Default Re: SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

I'm not suggesting anything, only a few hints to help

It's against my interest of promoting Polish vehicles , but there is one possible slot - an usage of 859 Schlepper C7(p) tractor was really insignificant, and probably limited to rear units in Poland. Around 150 were built in Poland, I don't know how many the Germans took.

As for SdKfz 254, surprisingly, according to Jentz they seemed quite widespread - 128 were made and they were used in artillery regiments of several armoured divisions, along with SdKfz 253. First were made in June 1940. Photo pm27682. However, I don't know if it makes sense to add another AOP vehicle, especially, that max speed on tracks was only 20 km/h, while on wheels it wouldn't be off-road.

There were only 10 6-rad and 58 4-rad SdKfz 247 armoured staff cars made, used in headquarters of Aufkl.Abt (meant to be only one in a company) and Kradschutzen Bat. No fixed armament, no radio set [Jentz].

Most typical of forgotten German vehicles seems French Unic P107 tractor, used in some units as gun tractor (and the French made some 2000 of them). There is a photo already pm27669.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P107
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/m/unicp107.htm
There were also several gepanzerte funnies upon its chassis, but they were less typical.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

Proposition

German captured C7p is possible to move inside Blue OOB. Use this as additional space to add rare or small numbers German vehicles. If someone need them in specific scenario they will be there in German panzergrau.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

NO.

I am not moving around little-used units just to enter other little-used units. It's full, live with it or alter your own personal OOB.
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Old February 24th, 2018, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: SdKfz 250 prototype September 1939

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Well something interesting came from that as I was digging around.......Beobachtungskraftwagen Sd.Kfz.253.
I dug up some information that may be relevant to the use of the 253:


Sources:
"Sturmartillerie: Spearhead of the Infantry" by Thomas Anderson

In May 1940, the following StuG A units were available for initial limited combat operations of the Sturmartillery concept. Their names and assigned units were:

640. Sturmbatterie -- Attached to Infanterieregiment Grossdeutschland on 8 April 1940. Became an integrated part of GD (16. Sturmbatterie/Infantrie Regiment “Grossdeutschland”) and never left Grossdeutschland.

659. Sturmbatterie (XIII Armeekorps)

660. Sturmbatterie (3. Infanteriedivision)

665. Sturmbatterie -- Established 9 May 1940 with intention of being ready for combat by 1 June. Crossed into France on 10 June. Apparently used for anti-Magniot line operations.

SS-Sturmbatterie -- Its creation was ordered on 16 April 1940 and they took the last 6 x StuG Ausf A ever built, originally scheduled to be delivered to 660. Sturmbatterie. Attached to SS-Standarte LSSAH (SS-Liebstandarte).

Sturmbatterie Organization (According to KStN 445 dated 1 NOV 1939)

Batterietrupp:
2 x SdKfz 253
2 x Kfz 15 (Horch 4WD passenger Car)

Nachtrichtenstaffel:
1 x SdKfz 10

1. through 3. Zug (aka Platoons) of StuGs organized so that each Zug has the following:

1 x Sd.Kfz.253 light observation halftracks for platoon leaders and battery commanders.

2 x Sd.Kfz.142 StuG Assault Guns

1 x Sd.Kfz.252 light armored ammo carrier halftrack (original 1939 KStN says they have 2, but this was reduced to 1 in 1940.)

1 x Sd.Kfz.251/12 halftrack. -- Messtrupp und Gerätpanzerwagen. Survey and instrument carrier for artillery units. Never built.

Muni-Staffle:
5 x LKW 3-Ton Trucks

Gefechts-Tross:
1 x Kfz 15 (Horch 4WD passenger Car)
3 x LKW 3-Ton Trucks
1 x Kfz. 4 (7.92mm MG AA passenger car)
1 x Passenger Car?

Kfz-Inst.-Trupp: (Recovery Team)
KfZ 2/40 (Small maintenance motor vehicle, basically a mechanic's car)
4 x LKW 3-Ton Trucks
1 x SdKfz 9 with SdAnh 116 flatbed trailer to tow Armored vehicles.

Gepaeck-Tross:
1 x LKW 3-ton truck

Reality:
Because of production delays, many Sturmbatterie received substitutes for assigned unit vehicles in 1940:

Sd.Kfz.253 = Some units received either the PzKpfw I Ausf A or Kl PzBef Wg as substitutes for the light observation halftrack role, because only ten Sd.Kfz.253's had been manufactured in March-April 1940, with the remaining fifteen in the initial order of Sd.Kfz.253's being completed May-June 1940.

Sd.Kfz.252 (Ammo) = The first 10 Sd.Kfz.252's ever built were completed in June 1940, so for the French campaign, most units received SdKfz 10s, but in one case, Sturmbatterie 660 received six modified PzKpfw I Ausf A hulls for munitions carriers.

Sd.Kfz.251/12: Because the 251/12 as originally envisioned was never built; so instead normal Sd.Kfz.251/1s were used, but in some cases when they were not available, SdKfz 11's were used as stand ins.
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