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  #21  
Old November 17th, 2010, 02:43 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Simply put, I care about armor, sensors and weapons and presenting this information, you can be assured that unlike our congress concerning certain legislation I do read through every ref I provide to pull out the "nuggets" that are real world issues, how that information is integrated into the game is beyond my technical knowledge and I'm sorry for that. The IED and Mine issue is DOA now that Don has explained this to me earlier, however "all around armor protection" means just that, since last I checked RPGs are launched from above ground and not from under it. And finally since it was brought up as well, I could careless about AC, except when it's for 55 days straight here when it was well over a 100 w/the humiture for everyday. But rest assured my computer with the game and every unit in it was very comfortable! Now I have work to do.

Don,
Concerning the LEOPARDS:
1. Leo A4M CAN let's look at it visually:
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ID:	10635 The Leo A4M CAN pics you have as I've submitted them. It's clear that the Leo A4M CAN is at least upgraded to the Leo A5 standard. However it would seem based on this next official govt. ref I managed to find it could have been upgraded all the way to the Leo A6M CAN level in armor protection. It would also then have the 120mm L55 as well. Please note the
28 March 2009 update.
http://casr.ca/doc-loi-leopard-tank.htm

2. The Turkish Leo A1T Unit 033, have not found anything solid on an armor upgrade, but it would make sense for as long as they've operated them and the huge investment they've made in the "big picture" (For clarification of others.) FC system they just installed on these last year. Maybe a gratis 10% might not be to unreasonable but that's your call. In the mean time I've emailed this question for all their Leo tanks to the following Turkish Govt. ref as given to support the FC issue as submitted already.
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/Sayfalar/default.aspx

3. Finally on the Turkish Leo 2A4T Unit 039 no information on any further armor upgrades as these tanks were delivered from Germany already to Turkish specs. However again the Aselan FC system was also installed on these as already submitted so the logical conclusion is it was better then what they came with from Germany or else, why bother?

Regards,
Pat

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; November 17th, 2010 at 03:03 AM..
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  #22  
Old November 17th, 2010, 02:52 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Don,
A further picture on the Leo A4M CAN for analysis.
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Armor yes but based on the angle and parallax I'm thinking 120mm L44 still.

Photo analysis lots of info and something I did while watching our "friends".

Sometimes when a man has nothing else left but his wit, if used properly, it can be a potent weapon. Or not!

Good Night All!

Regards,
Pat

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; November 17th, 2010 at 03:09 AM..
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  #23  
Old November 17th, 2010, 07:51 AM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH View Post
Don,
A further picture on the Leo A4M CAN for analysis.
Attachment 10636
Armor yes but based on the angle and parallax I'm thinking 120mm L44 still.

Photo analysis lots of info and something I did while watching our "friends".

Sometimes when a man has nothing else left but his wit, if used properly, it can be a potent weapon. Or not!

Good Night All!

Regards,
Pat
I agree it does look like that may be an L44 but that website you provided ( http://casr.ca/doc-loi-leopard-tank.htm ) does say they are all to be up-gunned to the L55. The angle of the tank does make determining gun length a bit tricky and it's too bad it wasn't taken 20 feet to the right.

In game terms if the 2A4's are upgraded to the 2A6M standard there is no point in having a separate 2a4 because in the game we assume it's going to be fully combat ready not stripped down for training unless there is some kind of difference but that same website does say

Quote:
At the same time, any reserve Leopard 2 A4+ can be fitted with the extra armour to become a Leopard 2 A6M and, thus, be ready for deployment into any war zone.
If you zoom in on that photo you can see three Leo 2's in the background on the road just under the gun barrel of the tank in the foreground and they are in standard green camo. This one may be a prototype showing what the conversion will turn it into but the gun hasn't been upgraded ( WAG ). What's interesting also is the partial slat armour at the rear rather than the full cage I've seen in photos of the Afghan mission tanks and how it appears to be flush with the forward side skirts which would suggest a significant side hull armour upgrade to the fighting compartment areas

Don
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  #24  
Old November 17th, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Don,
I was thinking along the same lines, that is a solid ref, and it had the right numbers also in regards too how many tanks were to be converted over to the Leo 2A4M CAN. I have seen the 20/20 split for the tank in other places between the CAF & Bundeswehr this could be a production issue and maybe a little "tit for tat" since the Leo 2A6M CAN were initially given on loan to the CAF. I do believe as well they are to the Leo 2A6M CAN standard. Some modifications were done to the Leo 2A4M CAN from lessons learned in combat with the Leo 2A6M CAN which is probably what we're seeing. With the Leo 2A6M CAN in the game, like the USA M60A1 R/P unless you have room for the Leo 2A4M CAN in Canada's slots, we can move on until some slots might get cleared later down the line.

Regards,
Pat

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; November 17th, 2010 at 10:41 AM..
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  #25  
Old November 21st, 2010, 02:38 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Don,
Not in a hurry for an answer as like you I have plenty to do but; We know GD won the FRES-SV competition (APC thread.) with the ASCOD-2 variant w/CITW 40mm, it will be unaffected by the latest British MOD defence review, though due to the cuts the rest of the FRES program could be frozen or dropped. FRES-SV is expected to be fielded by 2015, would use June 2015 for initial field date to account for delays. I would need to comb the UK OOB as I think some related units might be in it that would need to be deleted. I have plenty of refs already posted with some more on standby. Currently going through threads to "bounce" what needs adding to the next post against my master list. Also to save time I have a handful of issues that pertain to aircraft and helos along the lines of these two examples: 1. B-52's are now (Recently started.) receiving major upgrades electronically to increase ECM and Countermeasures for use against threats. 2. British PUMA's (Also recently started.) are getting substantially more powerful engines installed amongst some lesser mods, in game terms for this it would mean an increase in speed/or distance travelled. Are these issues worth pursuing to you, before I go any further with them?
THANKS!
Regards,
Pat

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; November 21st, 2010 at 03:05 AM..
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  #26  
Old November 21st, 2010, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Any FRES units that should be deleted use MOBHack to give me the unit numbers. I have adjusted all dates to 6/115

I'm still amazed the B-52's are flying....'nough said, but if you find any info that gives an equivalency such as the EW will be equivant to that used by a B-1 or a B-2 let me know.

If the engine upgrade for the puma makes a real difference to the speed it should be changed but it would have to be >1 point. Lot's of times engine upgrades only really increase fuel economy or ease of maintenance and real world speed stays about the same but if it adds 10kph to the top speed it would be worth considering

Don
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  #27  
Old November 21st, 2010, 07:40 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Don,
Just got back, thanks for the reply. Don't worry I'm now MOBHack trained (Yes I hear you all-Thank God about time!) at least for the unit numbers.
1. You got it.
2. B-52's at least for another 25+/- about 5yrs. depending on sources.
3. They talk about increased lift which normally leads to increased tilt both combine in layman's terms to speed. These will be new engines if memory serves. I'll have quick notes as normal.
4. Of things to come same for USA Apache they will be extended for a projected 30yrs. upgrade info to be submitted (Block III.) which should make it equal to or on the plus side of the COMANCHE (AH-X) which will be on my Delete part of my HELO section along with others. We've come a long way since that program was cancelled almost 7yrs. ago.
http://www.military-today.com/helico...6_comanche.htm
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Thanks Again!
Regards,
Pat

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; November 21st, 2010 at 07:50 PM..
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  #28  
Old November 25th, 2010, 02:56 AM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Don,
Was working on the PARS variants for Malaysia (3 of 12 for consideration, others info is to sketchy to present now or not needed.) and ended up finding so far one MBT and up to maybe three APC types missing as well, have all the info, some typed in now. Looking into possibility of one or two more tanks missing as well but won't get bogged down here searching for them. One APC to delete and yes I'm using MOBHACK. Just wanted to give you a quick update no response needed-still working it. I guess I tripped into another "rabbit hole"!?!
Good Night!

Regards,
Pat

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; November 25th, 2010 at 03:15 AM..
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Old November 28th, 2010, 10:08 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Open to all for this question.
Hope everyone had a great weekend!?!
I have saved the pictures of equipment to "My Pictures", so no URL picture data. Is there another work around to getting more then 5 pictures to a post? Such as maybe logging out of the account and back in again? I am prepared to enter the rest on a separate post as I've had to do this before, if there's no other way. This next post is picture "heavy".
Thanks in advance!

Don,
The issue with Malaysia after a week+ I believe is now resolved. This is to include the MBT situation. The APC section has gone longer then anticipated, the "rabbit hole" issue again with equipment and net "false trails". Did my best to sort through some conflicting info but, I think the result is now good. Will treat this as a separate post to be released by mid week hopefully as my spare time allows. Count is currently:
MBT; Add 1, Mod 1 & Change 1.
APC; Add 8, Delete 1 & Change 1 so far. Got more to do,this is just an update, no response needed.
Regards to ALL,
Pat
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Old November 29th, 2010, 06:15 PM
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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Don,
Even being prepared doesn't prepare you! Just finished about an hour ago, here it is with one more to come later.

Again 2020 end dates for all unless otherwise noted. Dates based on when fielded by refs or determination (SWAG) where there's conflict in the refs. within guidelines as previously discussed by PM or Post. This was a tough one. Rabbits everywhere!?!

MBT- yes I found one more from my notes from the beginning of the year. For continuities sake in the MBT section will continue "number" system where left off.
A8. UKRAINE/JUN 2010/OPLOT-M/ADD 9K119M REFLEX (NATO Des. AT-11 SNIPER-B #Missiles UKN/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing OPLOT levels. I'm allowing a one year delay in the fielding date to avoid duplication in these tanks w/o Zaslon and with it now to save a slot unless you have room for both. This tank is slowly coming off the production lines but is a major improvement defensively to all other Ukrainian tanks. It features a new third generation ERA known as Nosh-2 which is equal to the current Russian Kontakt 5 ERA and some claim superior to it, plus side skirt protection was added. Also it has the Shtora countermeasure system and it was fitted with the Zaslon APSystem as well. Also it has improved sites, FC and situational awareness.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/articl...hp?forumID=608 They know tanks they built them for the Soviet Union.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/oplot_m.htm
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84armament.php
Please use the links, though based on the original OPLOT they are helpful especially about the stats on the 125mm KBA3 SB main gun.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3009.html The Shtora-1.
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-...m-Ukraine.html
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3705.html
As currently on Ukraine’s T-84 and T-84 YATGAN. Notice no mention of the OPLOT (Lower left.) which was available when the YATAGAN was produced, the logical conclusion is the OPLOT must have Nosh-2 system or it just could be an omission for the base Nosh system.
http://www.milparade.com/digest.php?...fnum=95&lang=1 A Russian source a short note 3/4 of the page down. Seems to say the Ukrainians "borrowed" the base system of the time and further developed it.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3706.html More on Zaslon.
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M5. Mod: POLAND & MALAYSIA/PT-91 TWARDY UNITS 009, 010 & 018 & PT-91M PENDEKAR UNIT 500/As in the game. Mods needed per refs above existing PT-91 & PT-91M levels./Intentionally looked liked Malaysia was missing the base PT-91 TWARDY but after many nights of research and in dealing with other related issues to Malaysia I'm now satisfied that the PT-91M is it's only MBT to date. The army-guide.com contract section is a great tool, though it caused some confusion as noted below. Have seen no data on Polish Units 009 & 010 however, based on the refs it seems that Poland’s Unit 018 and Malaysia's Unit 500 are under protected based on info concerning the ERA pkgs on both. Other issues are quick noted in the below refs also concerning the improved PT-91M. However through some reading between the lines it became apparent to me not to add the PT-91 to Malaysia though at the same time I feel they have more (~110 from many sources.) PT-91M MBT's then shown by some refs.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/contracts.php Enter country from menu note for Malaysia it shows both versions contracted for, this started the "ball of confusion" as MANY sites supported that info. Add the PT-91 & PT-91M totals and I believe the number of tanks was 106.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product179.html For PT-91 TWARDY
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3431.html Please note Para 7 about the main gun as it might affect the PT-91M PENDEKAR as it's in the game for Malaysia as UNIT 500.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/pt91_twardy.htm Please note Para 2 and the bottom of the ref in the variant section covering the PENDEKAR.

C9. Change: MALAYSIA/UNIT 500/PT-91M to PT-91M PENDEKAR.


APC Development...
A1. MALAYSIA/MCV PARS/JUN 2012/C4 P7/DENAL EMAK 30mm Cam Gun
210(65 ready.) Rds & MG4 Coax 7.62mm 1.6KRds (800 ready.)/
Though the PARS are manufactured in Turkey (DENAL is S. African.) Malaysia will be the first country to purchase them after what was a long and grueling competition between it and the Swiss PARANHA IIIC and the Polish ROSOMAK. It is fully amphibious and Malaysia has fully equipped and protected these vehicles leaving out no optional equipment etc. such the FC targeting "AUTO TRACKING" as is available by the DENAL source. Turkey and the UAE are still evaluating the PARS. I will address a couple of variations.
http://www.denellandsystems.co.za/pr...ll_description.
html
Primary as it covers all aspects of the vehicle.
http://www.denellandsystems.co.za/pr...scription.html
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A2. MALAYSIA/APC PARS/JUN 2012/C2 P12/RO 12.7mm 2K Rds or RO 40mm AGL 40 Rds /Malaysia has ordered 275 units in 12 variations. Would add both APC types; ammo load based on similar APC weapon types.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2711.html Note contract info lower left of page.
See Page 5 Post #45.
Pics:

D1. Delete: MALAYSIA/PIRANHA III/UNIT 030/As noted above it lost along with the ROSOMAK per refs and posts above to the PARS.

The following share the same refs., with some having specific additional refs as added. Turrets single manned unless noted differently. All purchased from FNSS of Turkey. Modified in armor to some extent (10% gratis?) over Turkeys units to meet Malaysia’s needs. What's not at issue is the number of additional smoke and 76mm grenade launchers added as the pictures for all show as compared to their Turkish counterparts. Also will provide Turkish counterpart unit numbers as they might apply for further info concerning ammo loads etc. A little "SWAG" on dates (Within a year except for ADNAN SP 120mm.) to group these together and to allow for earlier and follow on order deliveries.

A3. MALAYSIA/ADNAN 50 APC (Added 50 to avoid confusion w/A4)/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted 12.7mm 2K Rds./
Pic:

A4. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AGL APC/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted SAGO AGL 40 Rds./
Pic:

A5. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AIFV/JAN 2003/C2 P11/SHARPSHOOTER Turreted BUSHMASTER MKII M242 25mm UKN Rds w/COAX 7.62mm UKN Rds./Turkish
ZMA AIFV UNIT 176.

http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning24.html About the SHARPSHOOTER Turret w/specs, this info might cause review of Turkish UNIT 176 capabilities and manning?
Pic:

A6. MALAYSIA/ADNAN ATGW/JAN 2003/C3/BAKTAR SHIKAN MSL System 8-12 Missiles & 7.62mm UKN Rds./ This is a Pakistani system very similar to the Chinese RED ARROW 8 system in capabilities..
Pic:

Not entered under SP/SPAA section to keep same named units together.
A7. MALAYSIA/ADNAN SP 81mm/JAN 2003/C5/81mm 114 Rds & 12.7mm 2K Rds./Turkish ZHA AMV-81 UNIT 073.
Pic:

A8. MALAYSIA/ADNAN SP 120mm/JUN 2010/C5/120mm 80 Rds & 12.7mm 2K Rds./Turkish ZHA 120mm UNIT 076. If the Turkish ZHA AMV-81has a C5 shouldn't the ZHA 120mm manning be the same and not at the current C4? It is important to note that the ADNAN SP 120mm is mounted on the AVC-S (Stretched M113A3.) that's why I used 80Rds vice 68 - 74Rds. as on some others.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning21.html
Pic:

C1. Change: MALAYSIA/UNITS 042 & 232./KIFV to MIFV/The KIFV is the South Korean version.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1416.html
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/acv-s/
http://www.fnss.com.tr/v1.6/index.php?conmenu=56
http://kbmyaf.byethost18.com/TDM_Equip.htm
A little dated from 2009 but a good general over view w/great pictures.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/contracts.php Go to Select customer drop down window.

C2. Change: UK/UNIT 602/JAN 2015/ADD P7 (Carry)/FRES CVR(T) to FRES-SV/The FRES program required the ability to carry troops into combat. All other aspects of the FRES Program are on hold General Dynamics (See the GD UK site.) was to still compete for the other variants if and when bids are reopened. The only part of the program approved was for the utility vehicles (FRES-U) but was later revoked by MOD to pursue FRES-SV. The units to be deleted (As mentioned.) fell victim to a restart of the program such as has occurred with the U.S. GVC (See posts #47 & #48.) which was supposed to be reopened under tighter budget requirements and focused developmental restraints this month, however all has been quiet on that front here as well so far.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...s-01130/#other Program was revoked to focus on FRES-SV.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/unite...ations_uk.html Shows C3/P7.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/articl...p?forumID=1593 Again mentions carry ability.

Posts: Page 1: #1 & Page 4: #33 & #38.
Pics:

D2. DELETE: UK/UNITS 275, 329, 414 & 423/These are the FRES-U series vehicles that initial contracts were awarded for then revoked by BMOD to pursue FRES-SV per refs and posts.

A9. IRAQ/BTR-4/JAN 2011/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/30mm 360 Rds, 30mm AGL 150 Rds, 7.62mm 1200 Rds & Either KONKURS or BARRIER (BARYER) ATGW 4 missiles./ Iraq started to get these delivered in Oct 2010, training was started in Ukraine in SEP 2010. Allowing for the fielding of trained units w/ JAN 2011 date. Also Iraq only to get the combat GROM weapons module configuration (Utility versions ordered as well.).
POST: Page 6: #53. Associated ("the rabbit hole" thing again.) linkage to this:

A10. UKRAINE/BTR-4 GROM/JAN 2010/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/30mm 360 Rds, 30mm AGL 150 Rds, 7.62mm 1200 Rds & Either KONKURS or BARRIER (BARYER) ATGW 4 missiles./

A11. UKRAINE/BTR-4 BAU/JAN 2010/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/Twin 23mm 400 Rds & 7.62mm 2K Rds/
Has the BAU weapons module. As these are for export did not include the SHKVAL weapons module for Ukraine decided to go "heavy" and "light". SHKVAL is the same as the same as the GROM -2 missiles and +800 Rds of 7.62mm. To allow for the heavier armored version; change to P7 for carry.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...10-0708-06501/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...0-09-10-06608/
Update shows GROM configuration and others.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_4.htm I know it says sometime in 2009, but I'm more comfortable w/JAN 2010. If you want to change it no sooner then
JUN 2009.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/ukrai...s_technic.html NOTE: Unless I misread the bottom of the "Protection" section GROM is already better protected up to 30mm rounds out of the gate before up armoring it with no lose to carry.
Pics:

Alright I'm taking a break here to enjoy the rest of my last day off with CINCLANTHOME. Status for APC... left to do BOXER IFV status, ARMA 6x6 status, NAMER Iron Fist Mod and BRADLEY ERA Armor Mod. Then onto MRAPs and the rest. Will delete refs once I know they've posted safely form "My Favorites", also to avoid the timeout issues as this has been posted on use WordPad or Notebook (This came the support folks @ Shrapnel Games THANKS!!), I highlight my points, print it, when done copy to thread post highlight off printed version (Highlighting doesn't transfer.).

Regards,
Pat
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