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  #951  
Old October 22nd, 2019, 07:16 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

I'm so pissed right now!!!

I'm going to be REAL brief right now as I've spent hours again in trying to answer the question.

First I can't emphasize how many references I've looked at over the last 24+hrs.

The bottom-line is I come up with the same answer "over and over again"

Breath!

Night Vision/Early batches
TO1-KO1 Buran-PA with TPN-4-49-23 passive/active II (target id range 1.2/1.5 km)

Those distances are limited by lighting conditions as stated in ref. 1. Which "ambient" "twilight" or "skylight" before Sunrise and after Sunset. And not in the "Dark of Night", leaving you, depending where you are at on the planet and the time of year, from <1hr. to ~1.5hrs. before or after the celestial event has occurred on average. Read the end of first para and "Basic Characteristics" Line Item #6 from Ref. 1.
https://issuu.com/ufobject/docs/russ...ons_catalog/91
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/


Commander Sight:[/b] Is a 1st GEN TI limited to the distances highlighted below. From Ref. 1 and all that have been posted or not.
PNK-4S complex includes TKN-4S Agat-S day/night sight (target id range 800 m (day)/700 (night)
https://issuu.com/ufobject/docs/russ...2rmor.kiev.ua/
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/


I "split" the difference between the two distances from the Commanders Sight (750m) to get the TI 15 distance.

Of the advantages the T-80U had over the T-90 was in the FCS & VISION, remember all these and other refs. make it clear the T-90 only used certain parts of the T-80U FCS. They als state for the most part excepting VISION the T-80U FCS was on par with the LEOPARD 2 of the time.

I cannot in "good conscience" and in keeping with the current game TI/GSR stats, see the T-90 having TI/GSR of more then 25-30.

The equipment just does not support it.

To be brutely honest I'll quote Ruger Hauer from the end of "Blade Runner-Tears in the Rain"...“I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.”

That line holds true during this evolution it would turn our world "upside down" when it comes to VISION for the earlier years the 1st and some 2nd GEN sights were available.

I will say this much since this was the focus of the this evolution, the West had the advantage in VISION, FCS and to some degree REALIBILITY of their Tanks. The East had more powerful MG's and as it would turn out "better" ammo then we thought at the time, also to some degree they were also "better" PROTECTED as well.
Another one:
https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot...80-gambol.html

I'm spent. Lost everything looking for another Ref. earlier. And darn after losing last night. but, having a bonus evening off with CINCLANTHOME because of the range this morning, consider me "Out to, well, Dinner for the rest of the night."

Regards,
Pat
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  #952  
Old October 22nd, 2019, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

The magic number for thermal imaging in the game is 40 - anything less and the thing cannot see through smoke. So if it is a thermal sight, it is at least 40.
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  #953  
Old October 22nd, 2019, 09:33 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Andy,
I was starting to wonder about a game limitation issue about the TI/GSR VISION. I would then in this case(s) rather see the T-90 with TI/GSR 40 then say VISION 30.

This simply because it penalizes the "UNIT" with Thermal Sights regardless of "TYPE" and more importantly for me, is simply the game does such an excellent job in simulating LOS.

I can "stand down" on the issue and I have a better understanding of the game parameters dealing with TI/GSR.

I would be curious for a very simple explanation of where you or Don feel the upper limit is with Aided (IR and related.) non TI VISION is for MBT's for my own edification.

And before someone says something, when Andy (Which this is rare.) or Don, calls I tend to answer the call.

Besides I just enjoyed watching "Charlie Brown-The Great Pumpkin" (As an update, that B**T**D "The Red Baron" shot Snoopy down again!!) and "The Toy Story-Scary Halloween" life is now complete.

Though it was 90 degrees inside that range, my record remains intact, I really like my Beretta.

Now for shower to remove the "lead"!?!

Andy thanks for taking the time.

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; October 22nd, 2019 at 11:35 PM.. Reason: Wanted to clarify, I meant electronic non TI Vision.
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  #954  
Old October 22nd, 2019, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

As Don said, the magic number for TI in WinSPMBT is 40, nothing less.

We'd like to see shorter range options but this isn't going to happen because it would REQUIRE a special "TI" toggle to differentiate between TI and normal night vision. Right now the code looks something like "Is vision => 40, if yes then TI, if no then normal night vision".

Since I've never seen the game code I can't be 100% sure of this, but as a programmer that's certainly the "simple" solution I'd use. Andy can correct me if I'm wrong (and he's in the mood).
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  #955  
Old October 23rd, 2019, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

As I said above - the code uses the magic number of 40 or more to be thermal or radar and so it sees through smoke. There is no qualifier to the vision number for IR, white light, LLTV, image intensifier, thermals, or radar Otherwise that would be available in Mobhack). Just the one hard baked number.
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  #956  
Old October 25th, 2019, 01:20 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

First good to see the site back up!! I had a hard typing out those last 2 or 3 posts. It kept hanging up on me. I do see on my screen the Post Icons list has been changed and it seems, expanded. Anyway...

Secondly and again, thank you Andy. In asking the question about IR etc. and not being a software programming type, I just didn't know how deep into the code the other electronic factors dealing with VISION are written into it.

Totally clear to me after your second post to me.

Thank You!

Regards,
Pat
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  #957  
Old October 25th, 2019, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

Note that there are no headlights either - you can drive your 200MPH supercar at full blast lights out down a windy forest dirt track with no problems in the pitch dark in the SP universe, it has some weird physics

Edit to add - and you can hang a 90 degree turn at 200MPH, suddenly come across Farmer Giles on his pony and trap and stop without turning them into pate as well...

For those who have to rationalise, maybe just think of a daylight turn as 5 "administrative minutes" rather than a minute or so (to allow for real life units not all moving in synch, all the hurry up and wait amd "4 Alpha, this is 3 bravo, say again all after.. ".

And any night move (vis under 10) - count that as say 15 administrative minutes to add to your campaign time clock.

After all - I could programme in a 50% move deduction for visibility less than 500 yards, but most players would say "to heck with all that" and edit the start map selection to vision >10 and never play "night rules" battles (most probably already avoid such anyway I'll bet).

Last edited by Mobhack; October 25th, 2019 at 04:52 PM..
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  #958  
Old October 25th, 2019, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
Note that there are no headlights either - you can drive your 200MPH supercar at full blast lights out down a windy forest dirt track with no problems in the pitch dark in the SP universe, it has some weird physics
^And grunts with amazing physical condition. I mean, they can theoretically move at a steady 18 kms/h (if always on road) for approx. 14 kms and fight just as well as if they were fully fresh.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the game. But you do have to use your imagination and don't take everything as literal.
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  #959  
Old October 28th, 2019, 06:31 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

A little restless right now, so I as I just posted on the KH-15 in the Problems w/ the Russian OOB, I figured before I lay back down let me look at the "Main Battle tank section. So one last time the T-90 MBT presented in 3 different versions. As you "click" on those different versions you'll see note changes for the engine, night vision and remarks sections of the chart.

As pointed out in the last patch submissions, some countries did update their T-90S tanks and were supported by the refs. submitted.

Sorry I forgot about this site, they're actually pretty good at what they do for what you can actually click on and see stats for.
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsyste...0-%20T-90.html

I noticed in the other thread it seems we're "double clicking" on the "Edit" button again.

Regards,
Pat
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  #960  
Old November 5th, 2019, 03:30 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

How come do I see RC4 has posted something (Community Forum/The Camo Workshop and WinSPMBT sections.) in this thread but, there's no post shown in TO&Es or when I open the Thread???

Am I having a moment, as I've NEVER seen this before?

Regards,
Pat


THIS WAS FOR THE JETS THREAD. SOMETHING IS APPARENTLY UP WITH THE SITE AGAIN AS I RECIEVED A MESSAGE FROM MS THAT THE SITE WAS EXPRIENCING TECHNICAL ISSUES THAT SHRAPNEL IS AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM WHEN TRYING TO POST THIS IN THAT THREAD. WHEN TRYING TO REPOST IT, I RECIEVED A MESSAGE THAT "THE POST WAS A DUPLICATE OF ONE I POSTED WITHIN THE LAST FIVE MINUTES" but THERE'S NO POST IN THE JETS THREAD.
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; November 5th, 2019 at 03:39 AM..
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