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  #31  
Old December 3rd, 2006, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

Quote:
mivayan said:
Semi-related: is there a way to set a 'difficult' AI when changing from human to AI, for example to set up a single player challenge? Would be potentially bad for multiplay though.
You might try to re-start the server with one of the following command line switches:
--easyai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)
--normai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)
--diffai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)
--mightyai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)
--impai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)

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As for AI the most effective work around to this problem so far is to simply use an American instead, they tend to put up a bit more of a fight than your average Artificial Idiot.
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  #32  
Old December 4th, 2006, 10:54 AM

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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

I agree with Arralen. In fact imo we will see very good AIs in a couple of years, when most of the players will have a decent PC to run the AI processes fast enough.
Right now, many people have some low end machines still, running complicated AI processes on those would take enormous amount of time. My brother is playing a football manager game [his kids are also loving it, but they are too young to play, so mainy they are only watching their father as he is playing.. ], and in that game, he can choose what leagues to play in. When he runs 60+ leagues for example, even on a dual proc. high end pc, it takes 10-20 mins to process 1 weekend "turn" in the game. I guess the present day comps are still not ready to run these huge processes.
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  #33  
Old December 4th, 2006, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

Quote:
Arralen said:
Quote:
mivayan said:
Semi-related: is there a way to set a 'difficult' AI when changing from human to AI, for example to set up a single player challenge? Would be potentially bad for multiplay though.
You might try to re-start the server with one of the following command line switches:
--easyai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)
--normai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)
--diffai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)
--mightyai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)
--impai X Nation ai controlled X=nation number (0-79)


I thought those only affected game creation, but I guess it would be worth a try...
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  #34  
Old December 4th, 2006, 12:36 PM

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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

In general there are three kinds of AIs, neural networks, smells and scent, and Brute Froce.

Anyone played Fields of Battle? That AI is quite powerful and selflearning using Neural networks.

Problems with Dominions is that a Game would have to be played til the very end before the Neural Network could be updated. After programming the Neural network, which will be a pain, you will have to play plenty of game before the neural network would give a good AI. If the programming was powerful enough. In general this would probably be the optimal AI for dominions as it would learn from human players. But the amount of cells and how to program them seems to burdensome.

Anyone played Galactic Civilization or any modern chess games? Those games give good AIs given brute force.

Brute force is about calculating as many moves as possible to find an optimal move. Given the amount of possible moves in dominions, the computer would never be able to calculate far enough to separate move from eachother in terms on how good they are.

Smells and Scent is the easiest AI to implement. You just give the AI some rules to follow and let it react on it's surroundings. I think this is the only way to go with Dominions, so all you can do is give better and more precise rules for the AI to follow.
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  #35  
Old December 4th, 2006, 12:45 PM

Folket Folket is offline
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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

Well, a comment on Brute Force. Brute Force is effective if you have a good algorithm to calculate strengh of positions.

In other words, How strong is my position now? How strong will it be if I recruit one mage?

Perhaps smells and scent should be scent and shouts.
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  #36  
Old December 4th, 2006, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

Most chess games have a good opening library, position library for mid game, and position library for end game manuevers. They also use brute force, but without the opening library etc. they are garbage....

IOW, without a good starting rulebase (e.g. 10 preapproved good pretenders for each nation, etc.) then Dom III would still have problems.
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  #37  
Old December 4th, 2006, 01:13 PM
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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

I think that AI switches affect only the starting points for creating the game. The impossible AI gets more points to create its scales and god than you do. So Im not sure that any switches would affect a human that is turned AI. Its basically already in a better position than the AI anyway (smarter creation and better start position than if an AI had gotten that far)
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  #38  
Old December 4th, 2006, 03:00 PM

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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

Quote:
Uh-Nu-Buh said:
IOW, without a good starting rulebase (e.g. 10 preapproved good pretenders for each nation, etc.) then Dom III would still have problems.
I think it's possible to solve the problem of the AI designing good pretenders, or just not-obviously-stupid ones. Certainly, an "openings book" of ten pretenders per nation would do that. It may be enough to write an AI that makes pretenders based on common strategies (blessing, etc) to provide much more of a challenge for SP.
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  #39  
Old December 4th, 2006, 03:14 PM

PrinzMegaherz PrinzMegaherz is offline
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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

Quote:
Arralen said:
Quote:
PrinzMegaherz said:
So, what if more than one player is participating in the game? The AI needs all turn files in order to calculate battles. Your idea would work for a" One player VS AI game", but not for multiplayer, which Dominions mainly is about
Pardon? Where's the difference between a human and an AI player, if both do their turn at the same time?
Actually, the kind of AI I described is easier to do in Dominions than Civ or Space Empires (but IIRC both have a 'simultanious' mode now, too) - exactly because the AI does not need any player file to do it's turn.

Think you're confusing the game server (who executes the orders and computes the results) or maybe the tactical (battle) AI with the "artifical players", which I'm talking about.

I seem to have misunderstood your original post, sorry. But imho the AI thinking does not take so much time. That comes mostly from calculating the battles and generating the next turn. At least that how it looks on my Macbook.
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  #40  
Old December 4th, 2006, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: AI concept of the \'80ies ... why?

True. The AI seldom requires more than a second or two to think, so it really has all the cpu power it needs.
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