Choice of AP or HE?

[Dion]

I believe AP stands for Armor Piercing ammunition and HE stands for High Explosive ammunition. In some situations one type of ammunition is better than the other. When both types of ammunition is listed for use by a particular weapon how do you know which kind will be fired? I guess it dipends on if the target is a hard target or a soft target, and the computer just decides which type works best. What bugs me is some units will have both types of ammunition listed while only one type of ammunition will be fired unil that type of ammunition has all been used-up. In some situations that really causes problems because you might be forced to fire HE ammunition at a tank and not beable to use AP amunition until all your HE ammunition is used-up, which usualy means waiting for most of the game after you have been shot at multple times, and only surviving if your very lucky. Is there a hot key or some command I can use? Or am I using my units unrealiscally?

[Imp]

The situation you mention does not really occur it the unit does not select one type of ammo use it then switch to the other. Rather 99.9% of the time the crew choses the best ammo for the target switching as needed. If it runs out of one type its because thats what the target required & running out of AP in WW2 normally means a lot of hard targets as in armoured vehicles.
At long range with low penetrating AP ammo sometimes the crew will fire HE instead as it has more chance of effecting the target as its effect does not fall off with range.

[Cross]

Hi Dion,

As Imp said, the crew choose the type ammo that it most likely to be effective.

AP ammo is best against armoured targets, but AP rounds get less effective with range. So an AP round may penetrate 10cm at 100m, but only 1cm at 2000m.

HE ammo is best against soft targets, but often has some AP ability. So an HE round may only penetrate 2cm at 100m but it will also penetrate 2cm at 2000m.

To get an idea of AP weapons effectiveness, take a look at this guide:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45683

If that doesn't solve the mystery, then post exactly the circumstances that don't seem right; with details like unit, weapon, range, target type etc.


Cross

[Nitro Cruiser]

Hey this is slightly off topic, but relates to HE/AP. Wouldn't it be great if medium and heavy machine guns were handled like armor main guns in the selection of HE/AP rounds? Not sure exactly when the various munition types were adapted (might be more suited to WinMBT), but it would add to realism a bit more.

For the .50 cal. BMG alone there are regular ball, tracer, armor piercing, incendiary, and saboted sub-caliber rounds. Not sure how they were used under actual circumstances. Perhaps the results would be negligible in the overall scheme of things, but I still feel it would add some flavor. Currently all rounds are listed as HE, which I'm sure was probably the most common round at the time.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

In MBT, i believe a few .50 cal machineguns have "sabot" or ap rounds to represent this.

[Dion]

I think the problem that I mentioned of a weapon system having both AP ammunition and HE ammunition, and not being able to choose which to use did happen in a game of MBT years ago. Between MBT and WW2 I have played about 200 games and their game engines are so simular that it's easy to get them confused.

[Dion]

This topic has brought back my memory on this subject. The problem I mentioned did happen to me when I played a game of MBT years ago, not WW2 as I previosly thought. Both games are so simular there is hardly any diference other than the weapon systems and setting. I bet the weapon I used was either a AAA gun or a MG, though it could have been something else. I'm not sure which weapon it was as I played the game so long a go. I think it was a simple matter of me using the weapopn unrealistically. What I don't unerstand is why do AAA and MGs have AP rounds? I think AAA must be supplied with AP rounds to take out some of those highly armored aircraft, but why do MGs have them if you can't use them when you want to? I figured I had the opportunity to get a infantry killing weapon and a AT gun all in one package. I figured if German 88's were capable of doing it, surely something more modern could do it too, and do it better. Pissed me off when it happened though. Ruined my set-up. Maybe I should start paying extra attention to the encyclopedia.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by Dion

This topic has brought back my memory on this subject. The problem I mentioned did happen to me when I played a game of MBT years ago, not WW2 as I previosly thought. Both games are so simular there is hardly any diference other than the weapon systems and setting. I bet the weapon I used was either a AAA gun or a MG, though it could have been something else. I'm not sure which weapon it was as I played the game so long a go. I think it was a simple matter of me using the weapopn unrealistically. What I don't unerstand is why do AAA and MGs have AP rounds? I think AAA must be supplied with AP rounds to take out some of those highly armored aircraft, but why do MGs have them if you can't use them when you want to? I figured I had the opportunity to get a infantry killing weapon and a AT gun all in one package. I figured if German 88's were capable of doing it, surely something more modern could do it too, and do it better. Pissed me off when it happened though. Ruined my set-up. Maybe I should start paying extra attention to the encyclopedia.

They have AP rounds to damage any armor closing on their position, but obviously, their use is limited by range, like tank guns, for example, i find the 50 Cal M2 (SLAP) rounds very useful to kill BTRs under 500m, but when over 800m AP is nearly useless, so crews fire HE(normal shot) because they have some chance of penetration 1.
The same applies to AA guns with AP.

[Greyfell]

if you want a example of how overpowered HE attacks need to be to take out enemy armor, try playing as germany in the late war and pick up some "Sturmtiger" units. I believe that's the right one... with a 38cm rocket gun. Turn blast radius on and aim for packs of enemy tanks and watch the damage flood in.

YOU won't get a whole lot of hard kills, but tracks will fly off with suprisingly regularity and those soviet tank riders will bail off in a **hurry**