What did I missed from Dom I.? -> DIPLOMACY! - Page 3

Mortifer · #21 September 22nd, 2003, 04:19 PM

So if you attack an AI, or the AI attacks you, there will be no more peace, am I correct? I didnt remember, I played with the game long time ago.

A few final words.:
The concept of the game [holy war] shouldnt wipe out diplomacy. Its still acceptable that there wont be any kind of diplomacy, but as I said, it would be lot more fun to make alliances, exchange troops or territories. Of course this would require a decent diplo AI.

Perhaps as an addon, Illwinter should try to add something like that.

It would be an awesome addition...

MythicalMino · #22 September 22nd, 2003, 04:28 PM

you misunderstand me....

I agree...a good diplomacy model would be good....but, in this game, I don't miss it...in Civ series, I would...

but I just don't really miss it...

If, they put one in that works...GREAT....that will just add that much more to move it closer to fantasy tbs perfection...but, "I" don't miss it...

Pocus · #23 September 22nd, 2003, 04:45 PM

I think there is two issues : diplomacy, and sharing of same space. I dont care a dime about diplomacy in MP, but I would have really appreciated to have an order which would let the troops of my ally move thru one of my province without triggering a combat with the units I have there. This, I miss a lot.

the problem of not having that is that the game is more compartimented by physical positioning of players that most other games. You wont have choice, and you are forced to interact with your neighbors, be it peace or war.

Mortifer · #24 September 22nd, 2003, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cpbeller:

If, they put one in that works...GREAT....that will just add that much more to move it closer to fantasy tbs perfection...but, "I" don't miss it...

Well said, I agree with this. If they can add something what will work, than do it!

licker · #25 September 22nd, 2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
I think there is two issues : diplomacy, and sharing of same space. I dont care a dime about diplomacy in MP, but I would have really appreciated to have an order which would let the troops of my ally move thru one of my province without triggering a combat with the units I have there. This, I miss a lot.

the problem of not having that is that the game is more compartimented by physical positioning of players that most other games. You wont have choice, and you are forced to interact with your neighbors, be it peace or war.

I'm not sure this is really such a problem. It could be for some situations, but really what you need to do is agree to swap provinces with your ally or just hand over one or two so that he can get the border with the common enemy. If anything this type of action requires more diplomacy (though you can't do it SP) than just giving a right of passage (ala CivIII). Besides I'm sure there are more coding issues involved here. For example what happens when there are 3 (or more) sides involved in the battle? Its possible to happen now, but not with multiple sides already in the province.

I havn't said much on this issue because I don't think that a game like Dom really needs anykind of SP diplo model. The holy war theme leeds easilly enough to the belief that the pretenders would never grant any kind of authority to each other, at best they would just ignore the others until they had the time/resources to directly challenge them. I do understand the Machiavellian attatude of doing whatever you can to acheive your end results, but for the sake of gameplay (SP anyway) the simple approach seems to work.

That said, it shouldn't be that difficult to add some sort of an 'attitude' setting that allows the SP to see what the reletive attitudes of his neighbors towards him is. Of course the attitude doesn't have to mean anything, but it would be a nice cosmetic touch perhaps. As you can gain intel on provinces where you have dominion or spies, add to the info the relative attitude of the province toward your nation. At least that way you'd know if the other nation was seething at you, or merely annoyed, or whatever.

Mortifer · #26 September 22nd, 2003, 05:28 PM

Well guess what! I seen the best AI in old KOEI games like the Romance of the 3 kingdoms VI. It had some awesome diplo AI. There was a table what showed you, that the AI players like you or not. [there were more attributes, so for example if you sent lot of gold they liked you more, but if you attacked a country, and the AI liked that country, your reputation was decreased as well...sorta like in civ3...but it worked better in that game...and tons of more stuff in that game..like a joint attack with the AI on a province etc! It was fantastic.

Zerger · #27 September 22nd, 2003, 05:31 PM

Dominions 2. + diplomacy = That's what we need!

Aristoteles · #28 September 26th, 2003, 12:38 AM

Interesting idea. Diplomacy can be very good and fun, IF the diplomacy AI is good enough. If it's crap, it can be exploited.

Bard of Prey · #29 September 26th, 2003, 12:48 AM

I'm going to have to chime in on the 'forget diplomcy' side... partly because I've seen more strategy games ruined by poor diplomacy than I've seen improved by it, but also because I don't think it suits this game very well.

One huge problem with allowing you to move through your allies' territory in Dominions is this... what's to stop you from moving your Prophet and your Pretender all over your so-called ally's territory in order to subvert their dominion (or just sitting on their capitol for that matter)?

You could conceivably destroy a nation you supposedly had an alliance with this way... and while a human player would recognize what you were doing and break the alliance, how would a computer player tell the difference between this exploit and 'accidental' interference you might cause from just being nearby?

licker · #30 September 26th, 2003, 12:57 AM

That's a good point BoP, an excellent reason for why only one nation should be allowed per province (seiges and sneakers non withstanding).

However, it would be nice to have some basic options or information on relations. It would be nice to be able to declare (from your side) intentions vs. another empire. Non aggression, hostilities, holy war. This setting could influance your population along the boarder with the nation to increase production (while decreasing income) or other effects. It would also be nice to be able to offer bribes or swap territories (only where you have more dominion I'd imagine), things of that nature.

I agree though, that unless the devs have the time and resuorces to approach diplomacy correctly it's best to be left alone or for the MP games