APC Development and related topics.

[DRG]

They started being delivered in 2015 and I assume they are the beginnings of Coyote replacements

[luigim]

Are these smoke launchers for GAZ Tigr?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Yes. 2x2 per vehicle. Not unusual for this class of vehicle anymore.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/shorland_s55.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/ka...69_vystrel.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/vn3.htm

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

When Post 338 was completed I felt a little unsettled about the LAV-UP/or 6.0 date that it was fielded. I came up with 1/2018 based on the fact that upgrades were still being continued and that the operational dates had a spread in them covering a couple of years.

I called upon an old friend of mine who has had successful results with the Australian, Austrian, German (Military Armor Museum MOD's dealing with the same general issues as we are now. The French MOD however wasn't so helpful.

Anyway, here's the email I sent with reply (On top.) that'll pretty much show nobodies possible date was correct...

"Greetings Pat Conklin.

Thank you for writing to us at Public Inquiries Desk at the Department of National Defence (DND) with your query.

For information on the LAV UP, please consult the following website (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/business-...I-upgrade.page) where you can find the released information on the LAV UP program.

There is generic information on (http://www.army-armee.forces.gc.ca/e...les/index.page).

I hope this proves useful.

Regards,
Mr. A. Tom

Public Inquiries Desk / Bureau des demandes de renseignements du public

ADM(PA) / SMA(AP) DND / MDN
Tel. / tél : 613-995-2534 Fax / télécopieur : 613-996-8330
E-mail / courriel : information@forces.gc.ca
Web / Toile : www.forces.gc.ca

From: patrick conklin [mailto:@hotmail.com]
Sent: 9-Feb-17 02:33
To: +ADM(PA) Info@ADM(PA)@Ottawa-Hull
Subject: Service entry date of the LAV-UP/or 6.0

Sir or Ma'am,
Good Morning! I am curious as to whether or not the LAV-UP/or LAV 6.0 is currently in active service with your Army. What prompted this is that about this time yesterday I checked the military-today website and they were featuring the above mentioned APC. I dug a little deeper and came across information from VANGUARD, your site and some others and concluded that I believe the LAV-UP would enter operational service by Jan./or Jun. 2018. Military-Today has it having entered service in "2015 (?)". My date is based upon the fact it seems like the LAV-UP is still in development. Can you shed some light on this, and provide me with the actual month and year it entered service or is projected to enter service? My purpose is to maintain accuracy of the LAV-UP as I submitted it, and has been entered into the combined arms equipment data base for the PC war-game WinSPMBT. As a disclaimer I am in no way related to the game seller or developers of the game. I am simply a military equipment contributor to the Forum for the game. I can provide further information you may need concerning this request or about me as required.

Thank you for your valuable time in considering this matter.

Regards,
Pat Conklin USN/SS Ret."

Now here are those pages broken down...
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/business-...I-upgrade.page
Note the following sections from the ref.
1) Under "Project phases" it shows...Currently in
Phase 4: Implementation" and

2) 4. Implementation

Project approval: October 2011
Contract award: October 2011
First delivery: December 2012
Initial operational capability: June 2014
Full operational capability: Spring 2020


Next under...

Additional information

August 2016
380 vehicles are delivered to Canada. The Canadian Army conducted operator and driver training across the various units located in Gagetown, Valcartier, Petawawa, Edmonton, and Shilo. The upgraded LAV is ready for operational deployments.

So now we're looking at something just after August 2016 as they're training with them at that point or you use Spring 2020 when again, Full Operational Capability (FOC) is achieved.

I really think you have to go with the latter here. This is no different than the F-35B issue is for the USMC. NAVAIR announced IOC last May, yet as we all know (Or should.) the F-35B still hasn't reached FOC with many issues to be rectified yet and the plane is still receiving many upgrades along with the fact it's not fully combat ready.

Regards,
Pat

[whdonnelly]

Panhard Crab.

Sounds great, except for the part about replacing heavy armor. Very enthusiastic review.
This:
"The US Army and even the USMC may also be wise to drop their heavy-weight armor obsession and take a good look at this low-slung armored chariot."

and this:

"Depending on the ammo used, the M242 can knock out main battle tanks at relevant ranges (Bradley Fighting Vehicles equipped with same cannon were known to knock out T-72s during operations in Iraq)."

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/pan...t-v-1581746120

[DRG]

Interesting.....

[scorpio_rocks]

My understanding was that the CRAB and its big brother the SPHINX (a much better vehicle with the 40mm CTWS) had been dismissed in favour of the Jaguar EBRC & Griffon as part of the French Scorpion EBMR program.

[whdonnelly]

I've seen reference to the Griffon reconnaissance vehicle but it appears to be larger than the CRAB. So far I'm unable too find much recent news Your guess is as good as mine.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by whdonnelly

Panhard Crab.
This:
"The US Army and even the USMC may also be wise to drop their heavy-weight armor obsession and take a good look at this low-slung armored chariot."

and this:
"Depending on the ammo used, the M242 can knock out main battle tanks..."

I can't speak for the US Army, but the USMC has little use for a non-amphibious scout vehicle that can't carry passengers. It's a matter of their intended use. The LAI (Light Armored Infantry) battalions in the USMC perform two roles, recon and mounted infantry. Given the cargo limitations of shipping they can't afford many specialized single-function vehicles. Why they don't use SP artillery etc.

They guys I spoke to that actually shot at a T62 (not 72) during Gulf I said that while they were certain they could have eventually chiseled thru with their 25mm it would have taken long enough they didn't want to hang around for it to fire back.

[whdonnelly]

Perhaps the author was a fan of "The Rat Patrol" television series from the late 60s and still wonders why we don't replace tanks with jeeps carrying machine guns.