Infantry without shields. When to buy? How to use?

[Action]

I'm a shield addict. My favorite sort of infantry is something like a Machaka Hoplite: high prot, decent stats, medium dmg (5), and a nice big shield.

Sure, they don't kill that fast but they kill steadily, and they last a long time against other normal infantry. Most importantly, they can take constant fire from shortbow archers and only lose a few men. When two armies are facing off in the middle, near immunity to the enemy's (and more importantly my own) shortbow archers means the enemy will usually break first.

Dual weilding and two hand using units, even with high prot seem to suffer casualties much faster, and I have trouble seeing the value of an extra 2-4 damage when compared to a shield. You can charge them into a flank but theres not true flanking modeling in this game, so after thier first swings it'll just be a normal melee.

So my question to you guys is;

When do you use troops who give up their shields for extra damage over a comparable shielded troop? I'm not talking about special blessed units or anything, but say shielded infantry of ulm vs infantry of ulm with a maul, or tien chi glaive imperial infantry vs falchion and shield imperial infantry, etc.

And is there some way to use them that maximizes their effectiveness compared to shield troops? Shield troops are really good at tanking for archers and just slowly whittling people down.

[Jack_Trowell]

It depends on what you are facing :

- Versus giants or heavily armored oppononents (thugs ?), the extra damage might be what allow you to do any damage.

- For ulm, you might want to use the heavy infantry with flail : it get 2 attacks, wich can make a very big difference when facing horde of opponents, and with Ulm black armor, event crossbow don't do much damage

But I agree with you : I prefer to use units with shield as my main sqaud, but I also use often other units in flanking position (and yest it help : you shield infantry is the one that usually draw fire, and with a "attack rearmost" order, your flanking unit has a chance to go directly for that nice commander/mage whose death will mean instant rout for the ennemy army

[Gandalf Parker]

If the cost allows me 2 unshielded for one shielded then its worth considering. Not that I would use non-shield instead of shield but I would mix them in. Let the shields take the charge so the unshielded can get double the hits in.

[Shovah32]

My personal advice? Have several blocks of shield infantry at the front set to either attack (no ranged) or hold and attack (if you main offensive is ranged). Arrange them in a line with several gaps between them, between these gaps and slightly back place some un shielded (either 2 handed like flail/battle axe or dual weilding) infantry with the same command as the shielded units. This was the shielded units take the majority of attacks from charges (attack rear cavalry cant get past their wide line), missiles and magic and the first or second turn after they get stuck into combat the heavy hitters full up the gaps in your line, hopefully breaking the enemy (cavalry with lances, although not infantry can also fill this roll when place slightly further back)

[B0rsuk]

Shield costs extra resources.

1. Not all armies have access to bows. Use shieldless infantry against such enemies.

2. Use shieldless infantry when shield can't help you - against Illithids, mages, tramplers, giants (they tend to punch through heavy armor anyway). Also against Abysians with aura, I guess you'd prefer to kill them as soon as possible. It's no good hiding behind a shield if you're getting burned.

3. Shut down shooters with a spell like Storm, to make shields much less useful.

[alexti]

The opponents will often employ mages doing something destructive to your forces (and often something shield-negating). In those situations you main objective will often be to route the enemy ASAP. That means that you want to increase your offensive potential. Getting units with 2 attacks is an easier and cheap way to do it.

[HoneyBadger]

You can try a nice big block of 50 or more shielded infantry in the middle of the front, with two small (say 10) companies of non-shielded shocktroops at the far top and bottom. The shielded infantry is set to attack immediately. They take the arrow fire and close, because the AI concentrates on the big target. In the meantime, your two small companies are set to hold and attack. The shielded engage the enemy, causing the enemy to be engaged-thus distracted. Your smaller units go relatively unnoticed and smash into the enemy, who's resources have already become stretched. Those two-handed weapons and double attacks do all the more damage, because now the enemy can't protect against them as well as they could have at the start of the battle, and your missle troops don't do quite as much friendly fire, because you haven't made your unshielded units that much of a target. Follow this up with another wave or two of small companies, until both sides have pretty much run out of arrows, and then send in a heavy calvalry charge. Note: it's hard to time things right in the game, because you can only hold a unit two turns, and then attack, but you can put units further and further back in a battlefield, to simulate reinforcements. Done right, good timing can really mess the enemy up while keeping your forces out of harm's way.

[Forrest]

Honeybadger has it right.

I like Ea C'tis. Put your sacreds on one corner and runners or elites on the other corner. They melt under archer fire but most of the time that does not happen. Enemy infantry melts before them.

That said I find the elites speed over comes their lack of shield enough to make it worth while to put a unit in the center and have them charge. The archer loss can be worth the effect. With Att 12, dam 18 and Mov 10 they make quick work of opposing infantry a good distance from your lines.

What runners can do if they do attack rear is staggering. Their 16 speed and Att 11 makes them terrible if they swing around. Since you can buy 30 to 40 a turn they are a archers worse nightmare. Very few enemy will survive retreating past them.