LA Pangea - a rotten way to go green

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

What do people think the ideal solution would be?

I'd suggest something like:
EA & MA Pan: Cost 90 gems, research level 6
LA Pan: Cost 50 gems, research level 0

If this seems like a good solution I can code it up and submit the change to qm, on the off-chance that he likes it.

Would sound perfect in my opinion

[Finalgenesis]

is lvl 0 CW overpowered for EA and MA Pan? I kinda like having CW as an optional "mode" for Pans you can switch to, though thematically I suppose it fits most for LA and maybe a bit for MA.

It seems that if CW is put at lvl 6 in ench tree for EA & MA, it might as well be removed from the spell list for those ages to keep with the theme. I'm guessing the intention for lvl 6 research is a theme adjustment rather then balance consideration?

I'd say 50 cost for LA and 90 for EA MA keeping it all at lvl 0 seem to be fine balance-wise. Unless there is something broken about it for EA MA that I'm unaware of, otherwise my gut feeling is that it'd be a shame to cut off alternative flavourful strategy for nations (well... or lower it's viability when it wasn't overpowered).

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Finalgenesis

I'd say 50 cost for LA and 90 for EA MA keeping it all at lvl 0 seem to be fine balance-wise. Unless there is something broken about it for EA MA that I'm unaware of, otherwise my gut feeling is that it'd be a shame to cut off alternative flavourful strategy for nations (well... or lower it's viability when it wasn't overpowered).

Well, Ench0 50 gem CW for EA and MA Pan was way too overpowered I used it in both the Magellan game (EA game) and (a more refined strategy of the one I used in EA) in Forge of Godhood (MA game), in which both I got it up on turn 10. The synergy of mixed maenad-manikin armies was just too good, and it still left EA and MA with their other strengths. EA-MA Pangea will run with a Turmoil-Luck and Growth3 scales anyway, which makes the CW even more useful (rather than the Order scales LA Pan has to take), and the gold hit CW gives is not that horrible for EA-MA.

If it was Ench0 but at 90 gems I would not necessarily go for it with EA-MA Pan, but then again I might. Would still be able to get it up at around turn ~15 most likely. Pans will easily find the plethora of Nature sites available in EA and MA, plus they will have the Turmoil-Luck scales bringing in loads of additional gems.

At Ench6 and 90 gems CW still is an option for EA-MA. But as EA-MA Pan most likely goes for Alteration first, they will more likely get up Mother Oak instead (and not *in addition* to CW). CW might still be something to get up later in the game, so the option is still there, although CW is not very useful later in the game.

[Finalgenesis]

I was told you managed to showed that ench 0 90N CW for EA and MA Pan was brokenly overpowered in those games you spoke of, so it was basically a balancing decision to shut down this strategy (well technically you could still use CW late in the game, but it's not really viable).

It's really a shame though, on principle I normally vehemently oppose any changes to shut down viable alternative strategies for nations and limiting their choices of play, especially when it's thematically cool. I would've tried to balanced it for EA and MA rather then just kill off a cool alt strat.

[aaminoff]

The first Baalz guide I ever read was the Helheim one, and that was essentially the strategy I used to reach 3rd in my first MP game.

So I am looking at LA Pan and thinking this could be a place where the Helheim idea of taking Drain scales and overcoming them with Skull Mentors has promise. The design points gained from swapping in Drain 2 for the typical Magic 1 could be used to have your rainbow pretender start awake instead of asleep, and be researching starting turn 1. Or get better scales elsewhere. Or more rainbow magic paths. It also means that if you can manually site-search a bit with your rainbow pretender and get a few more Nature gems income, you might be able to cast Carrion Woods sooner. I do think for this strategy you want the N6D4 on the pretender rather than relying on fancy boosters, though since you are researching Construction 4 for skull mentors anyway maybe I am wrong.