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  #1  
Old July 14th, 2018, 02:18 PM

raginis raginis is offline
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Default maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

Is there an effect? I'm playing as Iraq around 1991, and I have three RPG weapons to choose from:

Name Acc Leth Pen Range Warhead
RPG-7 5 4:0 33 10 5
RPG-16D 5 7:0 30 12 3
RPG-18 5 4:0 38 4 4

The best penetration is for RPG-18, but it's also by far the smallest range. I don't intend to fire these weapons at their maximum range, so a range of 4 hexes would actually be perfectly acceptable - unless, of course, the accuracy calculation takes into account a weapon's maximum range, and gives a bonus when firing at targets well within the max range. I could not find this info in the manual.

Second question - the manual does say that warhead size affects damage and penetration (at least for HEAT weapons). But - how large is this effect? Here the difference in warheads among the three RPGs is significant - 2 points, or 66% percent if the RPG-16D is taken as the base. RPG-16D already has the least penetration, but also the longest range. But, if max range doesn't matter, but warhead size matters a lot, then RPG-16D would be the most useless weapon of the three.
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Old July 14th, 2018, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

Take a look at the AP calculator that's included with the game and can be found in Game Options / Utilities you can cross-index which weapon number they are using MOBHack.. that will give you a better idea how they will proform
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Old July 15th, 2018, 12:30 PM

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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

Take the biggest boom, those apc crews in the next hex deserve to go with style.
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Old July 15th, 2018, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

Range and penetration are the most important things for an AT weapon. In the game even the LAW warhead is enough to KO a tank 80% of the time if it penetrates.
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Old July 15th, 2018, 10:58 PM

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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

I have to question if the game considers LAW firing a single weapon or a volley fire of multiple LAWs. The 66mm warhead was considered marginal against tank armor unless it struck a vital area. US Army training advocated multiple LAWs against medium or heavy tanks. In a volley fire situation the game's handling of LAWs seem appropriate IMO.
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Old July 16th, 2018, 02:28 AM
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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

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Originally Posted by jp10 View Post
I have to question if the game considers LAW firing a single weapon or a volley fire of multiple LAWs. The 66mm warhead was considered marginal against tank armor unless it struck a vital area. US Army training advocated multiple LAWs against medium or heavy tanks. In a volley fire situation the game's handling of LAWs seem appropriate IMO.
If a single one hits, pens and kills the target, surely they stop firing, right?
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Old July 16th, 2018, 12:22 PM

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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

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Originally Posted by Wdll View Post

If a single one hits, pens and kills the target, surely they stop firing, right?
If that single hit does not kill the target you might have given away your best chance in a close, quick moving situation. The results of a hit can be hard to determine quickly. The explosion will obscure the target briefly. A vehicle may still keep moving even with a wounded/dead driver for a distance.
Two common techniques for volley fire.
1. Stationary target. A soldier yells out the range and fires. if it falls short/long the next soldier yells out a corrected range and fires (example: First shot 150, it falls over, next shot 125...) Once it is hit all remaining LAWs fire at that range.
2. Moving vehicle. Leader estimates target range. Some of the LAWs will fire at that range, some will fire a distance less, some more. Example: 6 LAWs, 2 fires at 150, 2 at 175, 2 at 125.
Sounds more complicated by with proper training no so confusing.

Both these methods could be considered being used within the time frame of the Rate-of-Fire a single game turn. I consider the ammo limit of a unit's LAWs to not specifically mean that is the number of LAWs but how many 'firings' of LAWs that unit has regardless of method of engagement
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Old July 16th, 2018, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wdll View Post

If a single one hits, pens and kills the target, surely they stop firing, right?
If that single hit does not kill the target you might have given away your best chance in a close, quick moving situation. The results of a hit can be hard to determine quickly. The explosion will obscure the target briefly. A vehicle may still keep moving even with a wounded/dead driver for a distance.
Two common techniques for volley fire.
1. Stationary target. A soldier yells out the range and fires. if it falls short/long the next soldier yells out a corrected range and fires (example: First shot 150, it falls over, next shot 125...) Once it is hit all remaining LAWs fire at that range.
2. Moving vehicle. Leader estimates target range. Some of the LAWs will fire at that range, some will fire a distance less, some more. Example: 6 LAWs, 2 fires at 150, 2 at 175, 2 at 125.
Sounds more complicated by with proper training no so confusing.

Both these methods could be considered being used within the time frame of the Rate-of-Fire a single game turn. I consider the ammo limit of a unit's LAWs to not specifically mean that is the number of LAWs but how many 'firings' of LAWs that unit has regardless of method of engagement
I was joking but thanks for the article

Though I have to guess your last paragraph was also an attempt of humor from your side.
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Old July 16th, 2018, 10:05 PM

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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

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Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Take a look at the AP calculator that's included with the game and can be found in Game Options / Utilities you can cross-index which weapon number they are using MOBHack.. that will give you a better idea how they will proform
I don't think I have the AP calculator, maybe because I only have the free version of the game.

In any case, I did a quick test. An RPG-18 team (max. range 200m), with slightly more experience, had a higher to-hit% than a slightly lower-experience RPG-16D team (max. range 600m). So, at the ranges where an RPG is useful, there does not appear to be a significant impact of max. range on accuracy (if indeed there is ANY impact - does anyone know for sure?). Indeed, I had a RPG-18 team that was inferior in experience, morale, and infantry command to an RPG-16D team, and yet the RPG-18 team had a higher accuracy.

As to penetration, each unit was able to achieve, at the range of 150m, penetration slightly higher than the penetration listed in the data section. An RPG-7 team also achieved penetration higher than its theoretical value. Does warhead size matter for this? I still don't know, but basically the value in the information screen can be exceeded.
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Old July 17th, 2018, 07:51 AM

jivemi jivemi is offline
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Default Re: maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

Armor Pen Calculator can be accessed by clicking on the Utilities tab in the game startup window. RPGs fire HEAT warheads which like AP and APCR (or Sabot) can sometimes achieve penetration higher than their normal rating. Hence each category (AP, Sabot, HEAT and HE) have one row of figures for normal and another for "best" at various ranges. Dunno about the effect, if any, of max range on accuracy.

Last edited by jivemi; July 17th, 2018 at 08:40 AM..
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