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  #601  
Old January 23rd, 2017, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

RE: T-84 turret armour---------Either you or someone else already brought this up and it's already been adjusted
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  #602  
Old January 24th, 2017, 02:39 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

First things first: I checked Russian UNIT 697 it shows the T-72B3M/B4 which in itself is it's own tank and I understand what you did here. For further I refer you to Pg.47/Post 466.

The Russian T-72B1 really is just a slightly better T-72B w/o ATGM capability. It does create a little dilemma because if I remember correctly the T-72B, B1 & B2 all became operational in 1985. But there's no denying that the T-72B1 was updated with the "White Eagle" Pkg. and were operational by 2012, have (are seeing) seen combat in the Ukraine and having been deployed to the "Eastern Front" to include a new gun etc. etc. as I posted last night concerning Nicaragua having them as well. This is the tank I propose for Russia. The question again is do we have to enter the original unmodified one?

Ukraine/Thailand: OPLOT-T as both these countries have named it, is on track for Thailand to receive the rest of their order of tanks by late Fall as has been posted by me and widely on the net. Yes production was curtailed for national defense purposes, however a second production line was opened late last Fall to fulfill this order as noted. Since it was brought up and Don certainly knows by now how I follow up on equipment I've submitted (Or related to them.) wouldn't be surprised that again as mentioned yes Thailand was forced to "stop gap" the situation by ordering tanks from China. This had nothing to do about the OPLOT-T's performance, they are very happy with it's performance, but, to simply to meet their immediate national defense requirements.
http://www.uawire.org/news/ukraine-p...ks-to-thailand
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...ia-being-17817
http://www.armyrecognition.com/janua..._10301176.html


Ukraine: The T-80U and T-80UD (Mostly) are currently in service at around 270 - 275 tanks depending on source. Also the Ukraine never fielded the T-80, they just built them for Russia. It would seem they from Russian feedback (?) and from their own building experiences (?), saw the same flaws with the T-80 and went to their own modified T-80U/UD models as shown in ref. 2 below. The first ref. is from a Russian and I'm assuming a journalist as he posted some pictures of the OPLOT-M. About three posts down he lists the UAF tanks that have seen combat in Eastern Ukraine.
http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/in...lat-and-other/
https://www.forecastinternational.co...DACH_RECNO=422


If the T-80 is in the Ukraine OOB, I don't believe it's ever been fielded. I do believe they had some after the Cold War ended but brought them to the above discussed standards. Note: Only Russian and possibly East German troops operated them (?) however, they were definitely stationed there.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...disaster-13550

Note: Russia has been bringing back the T-80 over the last few months. They've been updating them first before deploying them. All T-80 Russian models were to have been retired by 2015. However given the the current political situation the existing variants, to include the T-80U, will be held in service until 2020 pending arrival in numbers of the ARMATA.
http://www.defense-house.com/defense...ve-until-2020/
http://carnegie.ru/2014/05/25/close-ranks/hbrg


Well it's getting late. I've seen in a couple of defense reporting sites and in a couple of business sites that the Ukraine took a major step in getting it's defense industry straightened out by hiring our recent former head of DARPA we would call that a "coup" in most circles.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...rpa-chief.html
https://sputniknews.com/military/201...prom-analysis/
.

Related recent Ukrainian Posts: Pg.48/Post 472 & Pg.46/Post 457.

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; January 24th, 2017 at 02:47 AM..
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  #603  
Old January 24th, 2017, 12:45 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Posted today, a lesson in economics for a country in a state of war. This is a good self assessment of Ukraines situation. Consider this a follow up to the last and previous posts where noted.
http://www.unian.info/economics/1739...-thailand.html

More on the T-80, second ref. might address some of the armor protection questions...
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/T-80.php
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/T-80U.htm


I also believe the T-84 (Sometimes referred to as JUST the OPLOT.) is still in Ukrainian service.

Regards,
Pat
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  #604  
Old January 24th, 2017, 01:30 PM

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Default Re: MBT's

These armor values ( upper range guesstimates) are clearly referring to Oplot-M tank not base T84, it's pure logic that a 80's turret with rubber "composite" and not DU cannot have Chobham armor RHA. But It has already been correct so ok.

However, I Can only thank you for your steady hard work towards game perfection
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  #605  
Old January 25th, 2017, 03:33 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Talk about all in on the Ukrainian Eastern Front and from the Russian source I've mentioned and if you notice he does use the word "possibly" where noted, gotta be a reporter...
Ukraine: Tanks used by UAF in Eastern Ukraine:
T-64 modifications and versions: A, B, B1, B1V, BV, B1M, BM1M (for Kongo), BM "Bulat";
T-72 modifications and versions: B, BA or BM, possibly UMG, AV, UA1 (for Ethiopia);
T-80, possibly U or UD.

Rebels even better and you'll love this...
List of rebels vehicles is pretty much the same (T-80U/UD was captured, but i didn't saw it in action), with exception of single IS-3, T-55 and T-34-85 and T-72B3.

Ukraine adds a trophy as well a T-72B1...
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/co...russian_t72b1/

What's striking me now is, I was so focused on all these other tank issues of the last couple of days that I never realized how many T-72B1 tanks the Russians are using in the field now. And no, I'm not talking about the "White Eagle"
version they operate along with Nicaragua as already posted. I'll tell/show you the most obvious way to tell the B1 from the B1 "White Eagle" after this unless Don has questions I promise to "move along little doggy" as they might say around Texas and such.
1) Click image for larger version

Name:	russian-t-72b1-tank.jpg
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ID:	14556 2) Click image for larger version

Name:	T-72B1_main_battle_tank_Russia_Russian_army_defence_industry_military_technology_003.jpg
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ID:	14558

3) Click image for larger version

Name:	T-72B1 White Eagle.jpg
Views:	38
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ID:	14557

1&2) It should be fairly obvious that the Russians have upgraded these T-72B1 tanks and what sticks out to me is the ERA is of a newer type possibly Kontact-5.

3) Shows one of the Nicaraguan T-72B1 "White Eagle" tanks I chose this shot to more clearly demonstrate "It ain't a White Eagle" w/o the following...
The commanders 360 panoramic sight is mounted on a "stovepipe" as shown on the left/aft side of the turret. This is what gives it a "Hunter Killer" capability. This sets it apart from all the Russian tanks in service that I'm aware of.

Also there's an obvious difference between the Russian "White Eagle" and Nicaraguan version as shown in picture #3 above. The Russian version uses the same RWS AAMG that's mounted on the T-72MS. Nicaraguan still shows a RWS with a standard AAMG.

Good Night or Morning wherever you may be.

Regards,
Pat
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  #606  
Old January 27th, 2017, 08:52 PM

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Default Re: MBT's

More about t80 upgrading

http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapo..._11511161.html

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/176...s#.WIvpzfkrKUk

http://defence-blog.com/army/russia-...tle-tanks.html

http://defence-blog.com/army/russian...ttle-tank.html

http://www.janes.com/article/65580/r...nks-to-service

http://www.strategic-culture.org/new...vice-2017.html

IMHO, we have already this version of t80 in the game and it's T80UM.. and maybe its retire date must be postponed to 2025, if they are spending money in upgrading this cold war era MBT..

but it isn't clear because they are talking about an upgrading pack on par with T72B3, Relikt armor and Sosna FCS.

What do you think about?
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  #607  
Old February 3rd, 2017, 01:51 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Well this ref. has made what I've been saying here for awhile about the T-84 in Ukraine use pretty "rock solid" now. Looks like the T-84 to the right is configured to be dozor blade ready. But what I'm looking at is the ERA pkg. on these tanks without the time now to get a closer look, my first reaction to the picture and "second look" if you will, is that the ERA mounted is the NOZH version carried on the OPLOT-M which is of a very advanced type.
http://www.janes.com/article/67465/u...ond-debaltseve
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84protection.php


According to KMDB above it is NOZH ERA. You can access the rest of the stats for the tank through the above ref. upper left in blue. And for the 100th time and this site makes that distinction as well, the T-84 OPLOT (As sold to Pakistan.) and OPLOT-BM/or OPLOT-M (Same MBT) are different tanks. This distinction for some reason continues to cause issues.

Regards,
Pat
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  #608  
Old February 3rd, 2017, 02:10 PM

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Default Re: MBT's

The tanks in the photo are clearly t64bv, Pat!

Jane's error! You Can see the typical turret rear and side..

Typical kontakt1 blocks on the side skirts

https://www.unian.info/war/1758086-n...vka-video.html

These are the same tanks from the front

Last edited by luigim; February 3rd, 2017 at 02:36 PM..
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  #609  
Old February 3rd, 2017, 02:57 PM

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Default Re: MBT's

Nozh ERA equips T64B1M and BM Bulat, not older T64BV with Kontakt1 in the photo!

T84 is an old model so it's equipped with surplus Kontakt-5 blocks from its T80 Hull or indigenous production Nozh ERA but It makes no difference because Nozh ERA shape is similar to Kontakt-5 shape externally, you can compare the shape of the side turret blocks in the link below to any T72 w.Kontakt5 (BM model 1989 or T72B3 or T90A) http://www.sdtb.kiev.ua/sdtb_defence_en.htm

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t64b1m.htm

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t84.htm

As you Can see, Nozh equips T64B1M

Duplet ERA that equips OplotM is a different Story: similar to Russian Relikt ERA

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/oplot_m.htm read here

So let's make clarity:

The tanks in Jane's photo are T64BV with old gen kontakt1

T64B1M and T64BM Bulat and base T84 (read up) with Nozh ERA, similar in appereance to Kontakt-5 so they should have similar values

Oplot-M is equipped with Duplet ERA (Nozh-2) with performance close/same as Relikt ERA

Last edited by luigim; February 3rd, 2017 at 03:09 PM..
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  #610  
Old February 3rd, 2017, 04:09 PM

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Default Re: MBT's

I link other two useful posts

http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/in...at-and-other/& Definitive guide about Ukrainian Tanks


http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/in...eactive-armor/
Here they talk about Oplot-M's Duplet: it is a multiplayered Nozh ERA

Also must be noted that T64B1M CAN NOT fire ATGM, because it's a T64B1 evolution! But it hase the same protection values of T64BM Bulat.

So IMHO in game: BM Oplot Unit 064 armor values are fine but ERA must go up close to T90MS values
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/oplot_m.htm

T84 Oplot has same Nozh ERA of T64B1M and T64BM Bulat so for the first same ERA values but higher armor values

But what unit number is this version in game?

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/oplot.htm
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t64bm_bulat.htm
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t64b1m.htm it says "After the recent Ukrainian upgrade, protection of this tank has been improved. It is fitted with built-in Nozh modular explosive reactive armor. Developers claim that this armor provides protection against tandem warheads and reduces penetration of APFSDS rounds by over 90%. The same armor is used on Ukrainian Army T-64BM Bulat and Oplot main battle tanks. The tank is also fitted with NBC protection and automatic fire suppression systems."

Unit 053 base T84 is this tank: http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t84.htm and it says is equipped with Kontakt5, I suggest values similar to russian T80U

Last edited by luigim; February 3rd, 2017 at 04:38 PM..
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