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  #681  
Old August 30th, 2017, 12:45 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Don yes I think that would be a good comparison. The difference between the two is in the timing and circumstances of their availability. The AG was more in response to an urgent need to get a better protected T-72 in the field as quick as possible with some other minor improvements.

With the both the slower op tempo then truce holding to some degree over the last few months, you have to look at the AMT as a much better planned/designed out tank with specific goals in mind as already noted. My general feeling is it should just about/or be on par with Russia's T-72B3/4 It certainly has the edge when it comes to the ATGW issue.

Ukraine is no "slouch" when it comes to tank development, munitions, power plants and most importantly protection. We would do well to remember they are a player in the selling of and modification of weapons systems. Also and especially since Russia's incursion into the Crimea, how much foreign technical and investment in the defense industry they've received from many countries.

Also as a side note I think the reason now why the OPLOT-M isn't at the front is because the Ukraine doesn't want to be seen as escalating the situation in Eastern Ukraine. I believe this is why Russia pulled out the few T-72B3 tanks they suppositely had in the region. A little over a year ago the Ukraine only had about 10 OPLOT-M tanks. Today that number appears to be about 40-60 tanks with an improved version ready to be built and to modernize the existing tanks further.

Regards,
Pat
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  #682  
Old August 31st, 2017, 01:52 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Well I got excited when I saw the title on the website hoping as they just posted this yesterday (now) it would be one of their "tech sheets" however it's not. Same as we already have with the exception they're reporting that the Ukraine already has 130 of these in the field in the ATO. I think I still like Oct. though, it sounds safer.

So why bother? I thought the pictures in the article would be useful. As you look at the top picture on the left of the MG you can see what appears to be ATGW detector/jammer similar to SHORTORA. Now look center line on the turret top next to the 12.7mm NVS and you'll see the same but smaller. If it is as I suspect, it has to be there to detect top attack ATGW's.

The second picture below clearly shows the slat armor. A bit of a mystery as you look at the same picture is what's the purpose of that housing unit the grenade launchers appear to be riding on, turret aft.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/weap..._12908175.html

Regards,
Pat
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  #683  
Old September 5th, 2017, 01:39 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Well I have a catalog of websites I use for equipment only data or the former plus defense news. Well this is one of my equipment only sites I've had for years now and would you BELIEVE they have the audacity to talk about KOMBAT. This should pretty much close the books on that topic to some degree...the nerve of these people !!
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/bronet...ank-t-84-oplot

Is the T-64BM BULAT better then we think? Maybe after reading this, maybe. What interesting here is that it comes with two separate MG's, both the KBA3 (Same as OPLOT-M.) with a similar FCS as found on the OPLOT-M, T-80U, T-80UD and T-90. With exception of the T-90, all others can fire the KOMBAT. This would again support KOMBAT for this tank as well. The other MG is the 2A46M-1 which is a much improved version of the 2A46 standard MG of many earlier T-72 mods.
It would seem based on earlier refs. the T-64BM BULAT tanks that have this MG (KBA3) can support the KOMBAT as well because the primary driver is the FCS which this tank has.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/bronet...k-t-64bm-bulat

There might be some news here concerning the T-72AG in what was improved including night vision out to 1200m, protection etc. but again the MG is the issue, it does carry the standard 2A46 but also the KBA1. (Plus a NATO 120mm as well though for export mods only.)
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/bronet...y-tank-t-72-ag

So what's left is can the tanks with the T-72AG/KBA1 and T-64BM BULAT/2A46M-1 armed tanks support KOMBAT?

Further I've had to deal with this next topic I don't know how many times over the years. It's a minor issue but they seem to "grate' on me the most at times (SORRY.) but for the last time I hope from the source itself...
"The T-72 upgrade is powered by newly-designed 6TD-series engine which was developed specifically for the T-80UD MBT application otherwise known as OPLOT, replacing a standard 780/840 hp engine equipping the baseline T-72."

So a word about the source ref. here I hope most understand that UKROBORONSERVICE is the marketing side of the Defense Industry in the Ukraine. It would be a very, very bad thing to mislead potential customers of your equipment's capabilities. And I'll leave it at that for any legitimate company in any country.

I'll have to look into this further with those MG's.

Lastly for now anyway below are their weapons offerings except for what I need right now of course!!
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruzhenie-i-boepripasi

Regards,
Pat


T-72AG can fire KOMBAT now with the KBA1/KBM1 (Same MG) from the tank manufacturer. Those upgrades were made as recommended in the ref below, but not originally, those upgrades appeared to have happened within the last couple of years (Mid+ 2015) or so. I don't believe they came "out of the gate" with the newer gun or FCS.
"It is possible that the T-72AG retains the original 125mm 2A46 smoothbore gun when being upgraded. However, as the original weapon system errors are considerable when the gun is fired, this leading to a lower tank gun accuracy and to degradation of the performance of the whole weapon system, it would be expedient to replace the current gun with a Ukrainian-made updated 125mm gun designated KBM1 in order to achieve the highest hit probability from the tank weapon system not only in static engagements, but also in moving target or moving-own-vehicle engagements."
Done now.

"The new tank fire-control system can include a missile guidance system, with the 125mm guided missile being able to achieve effective penetration of the armour of all in-service tanks at all reasonable battle ranges. The guided missile equipment is similar to that installed in the Oplot MBT and enables the T-72AG to fire a laser beam-riding missile out to a maximum range of 5,000 m."
That's KOMBAT the Russian missiles (REFLEX series(?) they had and manufactured also just don't have that range.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t72m3.php
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/kbm1m.php


A comparison between the T-72 and T-72AG with a reminder of where and who built the T-72 during the Cold War...
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t72ag.php

T-64BM BULAT it appears with the 2A46M-1 it cannot fire the KOMBAT ATGW but primarily it's equipped to fire the 9K119 (NATO designation AT-11 Sniper) but these have been phased out by now as far as I can tell. And that ATGW isn't listed on any of their manufacturing sites that I can see.

Lastly for real...came across this site which seems very interesting. The site is Ukrainian but I found the following paras from it very interesting and it does seem to substantiate the "rumors" of German help concerning the in the development of the KBA3 MG and possibly the OPLOT-M itself as posted several years back. That particular section starts at paras 15 - 20
http://bintel.com.ua/en/article/opk3/
.
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  #684  
Old September 16th, 2017, 08:53 AM

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Default Re: MBT's

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80bvm.htm here is the beast
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  #685  
Old September 16th, 2017, 01:18 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

luigim check Post #666 in this thread, I posted army recognition's tech sheet on the T-80BV there. You might find it useful.

Regards,
Pat
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  #686  
Old September 19th, 2017, 02:59 AM

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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH View Post
luigim check Post #666 in this thread, I posted army recognition's tech sheet on the T-80BV there. You might find it useful.

Regards,
Pat
I'm talking about the new modernized T80BVM version, on par with T90M ( relikt and new fcs)
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  #687  
Old September 19th, 2017, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

Which is what the T-80BV-U (upgrade) was supposed to be ( I think ........) it's seems there are upgrades to upgrades reported every month

https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.w...t-russian-mbt/

no reactive armour showing on the hull front for the T-90m and most interesting..or perhaps it's that the joins between the reactive are much closer than before

Quote:
The T-90SM has the latest version of the 2A6M 125mm smoothbore series, the 2A46M-5. The main gun enables the vehicle to fire 4 types of ammunition to engage targets at varying ranges.
1. HEF (High-Explosive Fragmentary) to a range of 12km
2. GM (Guided Missile) the Refleks anti-tank missile to a range of 5km
3. APDS (Armour-piercing discarding sabot) to a range of 3km
4. HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) to a range of 3km

Gee......HEAT range of 3km......that's a bit ( sarcasm ..) shy of what we credit it for now

IF ( if....really BIG "if" ) that is correct that is considerably LESS than we credit the guns performance ...and it's derivatives now

Sabot range of 3 km is 60 in game.....right now the 125mm Gun 05 and the Armatas 125mm Gun 16 is 130......that is a HUGE difference that will need further investigation......IF that info above is indeed correct it has " game changer " written all over it. The ONLY value listed there that matches what we use in the game now is the range of the Refleks

wonderful.......just ing wonderful......
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  #688  
Old September 19th, 2017, 02:26 PM
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Exclamation Re: MBT's

Can someone get me a definitive ammo loadout for the T-80 series please

This...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80
has data that conflicts with numbers we've used for years

Main
armament
125 mm 2A46-2 smoothbore gun,[10] 36 rounds T-80B, 2A46M-1 with 45 rounds T-80U
9M112 Kobra ATGM, 4 missiles T-80B, 9M119 Refleks ATGM, 6 missiles T-80U[7]

Our load for the 80B is 34 rounds and 6 missiles according to that is should be 36 rounds with 4 missiles so it's at least close but our T-80U is WAY short by 12 rounds 125mm ammo if this info is correct........it currently carries only 33 125mm rounds and 6 ( the correct number ) of ATGM

Now ,I know for certain that none of those numbers we have there were just tossed in but that's what it looks like and I want to get this corrected

.....this is shaping up to be a PITA release already and we haven't really started yet

THIS----http://www.janes.com/article/73927/russian-mod-unveils-t-90m-t-80bvm-mbts

says the BVM carries "an ammunition load of 45 rounds" but many sources roll in the Refkeks into ammo count so is that 45 WITH Refleks or 45 total sabot/HE/Heat with room for 6 extra Refleks.......
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  #689  
Old September 19th, 2017, 02:52 PM

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Default Re: MBT's

http://www.russiadefence.net/t1791p1...e-russian-army

Seems that they have improved front armor for both T80BVM and T90M
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  #690  
Old September 19th, 2017, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

The U.S. Army is preparing to receive its first six newly-upgraded M1A2 SEP v3 Abrams MBT pilot vehicles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Fq7wYIvU0ig
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