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  #21  
Old September 13th, 2017, 10:44 PM

Gurachn Gurachn is offline
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

Yeah, the book is worth a look if you are interested in the period.
Well researched, but with the same focus on the characters that he gave to Blackhawk down, both from the US/ARVN and the NVA/VC/NLF side.

Interesting mix of weapons too - Flame tanks, 106RR on a mule, the cool and surprisingly effective Ontos (6 106RR rifles!)... heavy use of CS gas (can that be handled?)
Monty's Map does a good job of capturing the layout of the land, though it does have a bit more rural look than the actual city.
Especially around the citadel, I wonder if there is a way to get the look of the massive stone walls, fortifications and ornate buildings of the citadel?

Bit of a challenge here, but this nasty 'knife fight in a phone booth' was pretty much the tipping point for the US in Vietnam.
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  #22  
Old September 14th, 2017, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

From the NVA/VC/NLF side?
Now that's useful!

I'm afraid the Ontos is a bit of a lame duck as the flechette rounds aren't represented in WinSPMBT. And no CS.
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  #23  
Old September 14th, 2017, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

That is easily enough to do just give me an idea what the range and HEK should be for the beehive round.

EDIT-----
....I've got the unit and the Formations in the OOB now it's just waiting for the weapon details......how does 22 HEK sound? That gives casualties almost every shot and a big dose of suppression.....it seems to do what I imagine it's supposed to.

So far I have been unable to unearth any info on what the range of the beehive should be for the 106 RR...the M1028 is 14 in game. I suspect the 106 is no better and probably shorter.

Further info---
Quote:
A “beehive” round was developed for the 106mm M40 that, upon exploding, unleashed a massive whirlwind cloud of nearly 10,000 steel flechettes. Basically a giant Shotgun. No other weapon could clear 1/4 mile stretch of jungle like the Ontos.
1/4 mile is 400m....so thinking a range of 8-10 is what it needs to be but I'm still digging

AH HA!.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40_recoilless_rifle
M581 APERS 9.89 kg flechettes 4.94 kg N/A 300 m

also.....
https://books.google.ca/books?id=2KQ...eehive&f=false
I also need to know when this was introduced, one source says the 105mm version was only introduced in 1966 and another says the 105mm version was only first used in combat in Nov 1966 so 1/1967 seems a safe bet for the M581 armed Ontos

Further EDIT-----
The "new" weapon is named 106mm Beehive though I could use 106mm APERS-T but one source says "The APERS-T round is available in only 105-mm caliber." I'm liking " Beehive" over APERS-T



BTW....information suggests the Ontos units were deactivated in May 1969, not June 1970.....

Quote:
on Jan. 30, 1968, the NVA launched the Tet Offensive............For the Ontos, the battle was its shining moment of glory...........A year later, the Marines deactivated their Ontos units and the vehicles were handed over to the Army’s light infantry brigade. The Army used them until their parts ran out and then employed them as bunkers.
I have changed the OOB to reflect this new information
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Last edited by DRG; September 14th, 2017 at 11:24 AM..
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  #24  
Old September 14th, 2017, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

AH HA !!

http://bulletpicker.com/pdf/TM%209-1...n.pdf#page=244

range is 300 m AFTER a 137 fuse delay so the range is 9 with a 3 hex dead zone in front
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  #25  
Old September 14th, 2017, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

I'll incorporate it into the 2017 OOB update.
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  #26  
Old September 14th, 2017, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post
I'll incorporate it into the 2017 OOB update.
I already have...........
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  #27  
Old September 14th, 2017, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

As this vehicle is a bit of an oddball if you have given the beehive round a fairly large warhead how have you set the ammo loadout?
Rather than mixing in each gun like normal you could assign diffrent ammo to each RCL so you have some control over not firing the beehive round & catching freindlys in the area of effect.
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  #28  
Old September 14th, 2017, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

It's set up in my copy of the OOB as a special CS tank pl / sec. WH size is no different than a standard 106mm round and it gets the same ammo loadout as a normal Ontos. Right now the HEK is 33. Date range is 1/67 - 5/69
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  #29  
Old September 15th, 2017, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp View Post
As this vehicle is a bit of an oddball if you have given the beehive round a fairly large warhead how have you set the ammo loadout?
Rather than mixing in each gun like normal you could assign diffrent ammo to each RCL so you have some control over not firing the beehive round & catching freindlys in the area of effect.
For my variant I'm doing just that.
Two of the 106's will remain normal, the third will have the beehive.

For regular 106's I'm just adding a second weapon slot with the beehive (best solution due to range and other issues, tho it does let you fire both HE and a beehive at the same time, nothing's perfect).
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  #30  
Old September 15th, 2017, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Hue city 1967-68

The "problem" there is the round was only available for the Ontos from 67 -69 so it does not match the in service dates for the 50 or 50A1 so a new unit has to be added anyway. That is why the game OOB has it in a separate CS formation exclusively using the Beehive
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