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  #11  
Old July 21st, 2013, 11:53 AM

Ts4EVER Ts4EVER is offline
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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

Wow thanks for the great feedback. I'm glad you like it. I will add some more map descriptions in the scenarios where you can choose. Seems like the last scenario plays out like I intended: almost unwinnable, but you can save some units over the river. What was the final campaign result btw?
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  #12  
Old July 21st, 2013, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

Germany
Men 365
Arty 5
Soft Vehicles 4
APCs 9
AFVs 16

Score: 1187

Allies
Men 1076
Arty 6
Soft Vechles 6
APCs 17
AFVs 73
Air Trs/Helo 1 (<-- don't know what that is, IIRC there was only one Lightning shot down...)
Aircraft 1

Dec Defeats 2
Marginal Defeats 0
Drawn Battles 2
Marginal Vic 2
Dec Vic 1
Battles Fought 7

Campaign Score 9
Last Result draw
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  #13  
Old July 25th, 2013, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

Germany
Men 353
Arty 5
Soft Vehicles 2
APCs 9
AFVs 18

Score: 479

Allies
Men 1228
Arty 10
Soft Vehicles 6
APCs 13
AFVs 60
Air Trs/Helo 1
Aircraft 0

Score 1336

Dec Defeats 2
Marginal Defeats 1
Drawn Battles 0
Marginal Vic 3
Dec Vic 1
Battles Fought 7

Campaign Score 9
Last Result draw


The theme I liked, the presentation of Wulfir prompted me to try this campaign.

Not easy to change the way of playing. The first scenario was played with great caution because I was afraid for the next steps without refit! All hexagons were captured and I had destroyed the U.S. headquarters. I thought, wrongly, cause an adverse rout but this was not the case (it seemed to me that in the past, the tour consistently finished once in possession of all the hexagons and destroyed the enemy HQ) the final laps were past to defend the hexagons. Many infantry losses and some losses of armored personnel carriers (Artillery, Planes, anti tank guns and Bazookas ... Pretty hard to find, antitank teams Bazookas are a scourge! My losses amounted to 54 men, 5 transport troop and 1 panzer ..

Playing without refit is exciting but at the same time frustrating. A squad may still be messed pined. Throughout the following different scenarios, I had a Panther so damaged that he could not pull that off. If he moved, finished shooting!

This campaign is very well designed, we find no difficulty in the atmosphere described in different documents of this time tracing the agony of the German units in the long corridor of death. The fear of "Jabos" is present.
The final is at the height of the campaign. The last bridge! It is very far. Enemies everywhere whose deadly noose tightens more and more laps. And do except save the available forces are too weak to attempt anything. Apart Kingstiger, I have a Panzer IV (unharmed !) A Panther (8 points of damage.) and my 4 SdKfz 250/7 Just enough to delay the arrival of 3 Churchill.

In the end, I just managed to bring healthy and save pzkw II Lucks, a PzGren SMG (-6 damage) on a Sdkfz 251/1 (1 damage), a Panther (8 damage) and Pz IV (intact! )

It was a real pleasure to play this campaign, the maps are beautiful and very playable. Congratulations to Ts4EVER for his work. One caveat, you want to shout "Again, again, again other campaigns!"

Regards

Yves

Le thème m'a plu, l'exposé de Wulfir m'a incité à essayer cette campagne.
Pas évident de changer sa façon de jouer. Le premier scénario a été joué avec beaucoup de prudence car je craignais pour les étapes suivantes sans refit ! Tous les hexagones ont été capturés et le QG américain détruit. Je pensais, à tort, provoquer une déroute adverse mais ce ne fut pas le cas (il me semblait que dans le passé, le tour se terminait systématiquement une fois en possession de tous les hexagones et le QG adverse détruit) les derniers tours ont été passés à défendre les hexagones. Beaucoup de pertes d'infanterie et quelques pertes de blindés de transport (Artillerie, Avions, Canons anti chars et … Bazookas ! Très difficile à découvrir, les équipes antichars Bazookas sont un véritable fléau ! Mes pertes s'élèvent à 54 hommes, 5 transports de troupe et 1 char.
Jouer sans refit est passionnant mais en même temps frustrant. Un squad amoché risque de toujours être pined. Tout le long des différents scenarios suivants, j'ai eu un char Panther tellement endommagé, qu'il ne pouvait tirer qu'à l'arrêt. S'il bougeait, fini le tir !
Cette campagne est très bien conçue, on retrouve sans peine l'atmosphère décrite dans différents documents d'époque qui retrace l'agonie des unités allemandes dans le long couloir de la mort. La peur des "Jabos" est bien présente. Le final est à la hauteur de cette campagne. Le dernier pont ! Qu'il est bien éloigné. Des ennemis partout dont l'étau mortel se resserre de plus en plus au fil des tours. Et que faire à part se sauver, les forces disponibles sont bien trop affaiblies pour tenter quoi que ce soit. A part le Kingstiger, il me reste un Panzer IV (intact !) un Panther (8 points de dommage).et mes 4 SdKfz 250/7 Juste de quoi retarder l'arrivée des 3 Churchill.
Au final, j'ai juste réussi à ramener sain et sauf le PzKw II Lucks, un PzGren SMG (-6 dommages) sur un Sdkfz 251/1 (1 dommage), un Panther (8 dommages) et un Pz IV (intact !)
Ce fut un vrai plaisir que de jouer cette campagne, les cartes sont magnifiques et très jouables. Bravo à Ts4EVER pour son travail. Un bémol, on a envie de lui crier "Encore, encore, encore d'autres campagnes !"
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  #14  
Old July 25th, 2013, 03:44 PM

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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

Thanks for the feedback. Some thoughts:

Artillery and air: Do you think I need to tune this down a notch? Obviously the threat of Jabos and Allied artillery supremacy was a huge factor in Normandy and beyond, but gameplay wise these elements tend to be frustrating for the player on the receiving end.

Repair points: I am thinking about adding a few of those, mainly to repair damaged tanks and refit infantry groups. Something along the lines of 50 points across the whole campaign. It wouldn't allow the player to buy new tanks, but to repair some damage.

The mission where you take out the Priest battery: I am not sure of this one, my gut feeling is that it doesn't really "fit" with the rest of the missions. Quite frankly it was a last minute addition. Originally I wanted to do a mission where you sneak through american lines at night, but it never worked as well as I wanted and felt gimicky. So what are your thoughts on that one?

BTW the heli casualty probably was a scout plane.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

A) Artillery and air: Do you think I need to tune this down a notch? Obviously the threat of Jabos and Allied artillery supremacy was a huge factor in Normandy and beyond, but gameplay wise these elements tend to be frustrating for the player on the receiving end.

No, I think that nothing should be changed (or perhaps increase a notch but we must consider the non-refit) because these threats were real at the time and were a nightmare for the German troops. It's frustrating to lose units of artillery or air attacks, but this is the reality. Maybe he should add a scenario delay or defense (rather delay to avoid retrenchments) under the blows of a carpet of bombs previous significant enemy deployment.
What is unfortunate is that Winspww2 does not mix the infantry and condemns the player to keep several invalid units that cannot move and do not have much more fighting power.

Non, je pense qu'il ne faut rien changer (ou peut-être augmenter d'un cran mais il faut penser au non refit) car ces menaces étaient bien réelles à l'époque et représentaient un véritable cauchemar pour les troupes allemandes. C'est frustrant de perdre des unités sur des tirs d'artillerie ou des attaques aériennes mais c'est la réalité. Peut-être faut il ajouter un scénario de retardement ou défense (plutôt retardement pour éviter les retranchements) sous les coups d'un tapis de bombes précédant un important déploiement ennemi.
Ce qui est dommage, c'est que Winspww2 ne permet pas de mixer les unités d'infanterie et condamne le joueur à garder plusieurs unités d'invalides qui ne peuvent plus bouger et ne possèdent plus beaucoup de pouvoir combatif.

B) Repair points: I am thinking about adding a few of those, mainly to repair damaged tanks and refit infantry groups. Something along the lines of 50 points across the whole campaign. It wouldn't allow the player to buy new tanks, but to repair some damage.

I asked a few months ago the possibility in Long campaigns to limit the refit a number of points rather than a percentage.
I often started a campaign with a mechanized infantry company supported by a tank platoon and a section of tank. To this I added a section of motorcyclists, an artillery observer and a section of 81mm mortars.
But by enjoying the many points refit (fatal gluttony), I bought new units and I often finishing with a workforce of close battalion.
One can imagine, in fact, a moral charter where each player would commit to only complete infantry units or repair some armor (Definig the maximum number of damage). But it will adjust the charter based on the duration of the campaign and especially the number of days between each battle.
In the campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber," I think that the German troops would not have enough time to repair tanks. Wounded men can be treated and thus return to combat.
What a pity that the effect of refueling is not simulated dansWinspww2.


J'avais demandé il y a quelques mois la possibilité dans les Longues Campagnes de pouvoir limiter les refit à un certain nombre de points plutôt qu'un pourcentage.
Je commençais souvent une campagne avec une compagnie d'infanterie mécanisée supportée par une section de chars ainsi qu'une section d'antichars. A cela j'ajoutais une section de motocyclistes, un observateur d'artillerie et une section de mortiers de 81.
Mais à force de profiter des nombreux points de refit(gourmandise fatale), j'achetais de nouvelles unités et je finissais souvent avec un effectif proche du bataillon.
On peut imaginer en effet une chartre morale où chaque joueur s'engagerait à ne compléter que des unités d'infanterie ou à réparer certains blindés (nombre de dommages maximum à définir). Mais il faudra ajuster cette chartre en fonction de la durée de la campagne et surtout en fonction du nombre de jours qui séparent chaque bataille.
Dans la campagne "Kampfgruppe Weber", je pense que les troupes allemandes n'ont pas le temps suffisant pour réparer des blindés. Des hommes blessés peuvent être soignés et revenir de ce fait au combat.
Quel dommage que l'effet du ravitaillement d'essence ne soit pas simulé dansWinspww2.

C) The mission where you take out the Priest battery: I am not sure of this one, my gut feeling is that it doesn't really "fit" with the rest of the missions. Quite frankly it was a last minute addition. Originally I wanted to do a mission where you sneak through american lines at night, but it never worked as well as I wanted and felt gimicky. So what are your thoughts on that one?

This mission did not shock me, it is in my opinion plausible.
As shown in A), we could add another "mission" delay or defense (rather delayed to avoid retrenchments) under the blows of a carpet bomb preceding an important enemy deployment.

Cette mission ne m'a pas choqué, elle est à mon avis plausible. Comme indiqué en A), on pourrait ajouter une autre "mission "de retardement ou de défense (plutôt retardement pour éviter les retranchements) sous les coups d'un tapis de bombes précédant un important déploiement ennemi.

D) BTW the heli casualty probably was a scout plane.

Yes, I have not spoken but it is indeed a reconnaissance aircraft shot down.
My air defense did not have much success


Oui, je n'en ai pas parlé mais il s'agit bien d'un avion de reconnaissance abattu.
Ma défense aérienne n'a pas eu beaucoup de réussite

Yves
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  #16  
Old July 27th, 2013, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

Battle ONE - SPOILERS

SPOILERS---Battle ONE---SPOILERS---Battle ONE---SPOILERS

Just completed Battle 1

Oberstleutnant Weber's initial objective was the main wooded hill that sits centrally between all three objectives. Weber's main force bypassed Objekt Gruen in order to establish a firm hold of the wooded hill.

Weber also sent Oberlt Krause's PanzerGren platoon in the far north, supported by Leutnant Kramer's Panzer IV platoon. They were to penetrate west and then attack objekt Rot from the north.

The central wooded hill was 'captured' without resistance. Oberlt Scherrer's MMGs set up on the hill, supported by Oberlt Schneider's Panther platoon.

Oberlt Kessler's PanzerGren platoon ran into a US infantry platoon in a field just south of wooded hill. The unsupported US platoon was routed and mostly destroyed without losses.
Kessler then continued his advance towards objekt Gelb.

It appeared objekt Gruen just northeast of wooded hill was unoccupied. Hauptmann Taeuber's HQ platoon captured the village without incident.

After a brief engagement with a US infantry platoon in the far north, Oberlt Krause's PanzerGren platoon, made it to the paved road that heads south towards object Rot. Half of Leutnant Kramer's Panzer IV platoon were with Krause and half had hung back on a hill to provide overwatch support.
At this point some things went wrong. Both Krause and Kramer had AFVs immobilized by an unseen obstacle in the road.

Note to campaign designer: There’s an invisible hedge on the road at hex 24,7 that you may want to edit on the map.
Don’t feel bad, I put this sort of thing down to “c’est le guerre”.
There’s also a couple of hedge graphics at 30,31 and 30,33 that are not hedges.
And should hedges ever have 0 density? Like 30,32 and 31,31?

The north road was now blocked by an obstacle, and two immobilized German AFVs. With his platoon on the road, Krause pondered his next move. Suddenly they found a whole US infantry platoon, with supporting Sherman tank, right behind them on the road. Krause assumed they were reinforcements coming from the north. At ranges as close as 50m a messy firefight began. The US infantry were soon joined by another 4 Sherman tanks and additional infantry, including Bazookas, perhaps a whole infantry company.
Krause’s losses mounted, but he put up a stubborn fight.

Meanwhile, Weber directed his battle from the central wooded hill.

In the far south, Oberlt Kessler's PanzerGren platoon had just about taken objekt Gelb, but dealing with ATk gun and HMG defenses proved time consuming.

US 105mm artillery was mostly hitting where German platoons had been, rather than where they were. The once or twice they got too close to German AFVs, so the armour shifted positions.
The US 60mm mortars were more accurate, but mostly a nuisance, with the exception of a lucky hit that KO’d a halftrack.

More and more US infantry started to appear in the defense of the centrally located objekt Rot village.
Artillery Observer Oberlt Heinelt focused his mortars on the object Rot village, trying to locate and flush out ATk guns in particular; he obtained accurate fire by hiding within 300m of the village.
German MMGs and the Panthers continued to pound the village, while the PanzerGren held back, as an assault would be impossible until the defenders were subdued.

Back in the north Krause was barely surviving. Some of Krause’s infantry routed into US guns and were wiped out; But Krause made the US pay a heavy price. One after another the 5 Sherman tanks were KO’d, one with a Panzerfaust, the other 4 by Lt Kramer’s Panzer IV platoon; however Kramer’s tank was KO’d and another Panzer IV was immobilized. Eventually the US in the north were beaten, but not before Oberlt Krause had lost his life.

The remnants of Krause’s and Kramer’s platoons headed for the object Rot village, the only uncaptured objective.

P-38 Jabos and Corsair fighters started to show up over the battlefield, mainly targeting the central wooded hill. But the Corsairs also targeted Oberlt Kessler's PanzerGren platoon, which had by now captured objective Gelb in the south with support from some of Oberlt Schneider's Panther platoon.

The Corsairs didn’t have much luck, and even engaged a US 60mm mortar section, but the P-38 Lightning’s did better. The P-38s made several runs, dropping bombs and firing rockets at units on the wooded hill. They KO’d two MMG sections, damaged Schneider’s Panther, and knocked out a halftrack or two, and made two runs targeting Weber’s command vehicle with rockets, that he miraculously survived.
I don’t think German AA fire got a single hit. And the Moebelwagen was out of 3.7cm ammo at this point, having used it all against infantry.

In the lull after the air attacks, and with the US defenders in retreat, Weber pushed his units to capture the last objectives Rot. Oberlt Kessler in the south was able to send a few units north towards Rot; as Hauptmann Taeuber pushed from the east, and Krause’s and Kramer’s platoons from the north. Attacking Rot from three directions, Weber succeeded in capturing the last objectives with only minutes to spare.

German losses were 75 men
US losses 302 men
US also lost 5 tanks and 5 artillery pieces (4 ATk guns)
Weber lost 5 APCs, one Panzer IV and another AFV.

US: 437
Ger: 2125
Marginal Victory

Good scenario. I’ll look forward to the rest of the campaign.


Cross

Last edited by Cross; July 27th, 2013 at 11:18 AM..
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  #17  
Old July 27th, 2013, 02:07 PM

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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

Good catch on the blocking hedges. I will probably leave in the size 0 ones though, to me that simulates hidden ways through the hedges, a bit like fords.
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Old July 28th, 2013, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ts4EVER View Post
Artillery and air: Do you think I need to tune this down a notch?
I'd say keep the air and artillery, I don't think it's going to be all that frustrating.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ts4EVER View Post
Repair points:
A few repair points to fix a damaged tank or two might not be such a bad idea if it fits the story IMHO - but the campaign is certianly playable as it is now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ts4EVER View Post
The mission where you take out the Priest battery: I am not sure of this one, my gut feeling is that it doesn't really "fit" with the rest of the missions.
Keep the mission, IMO.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:11 AM

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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

OK next question:
In the last mission you can choose between a Kingtiger and a PzGren Platoon. So far every tester chose the KT. Do you think I should replace the pzgren platoon with something different? Like upgrade it to a Company or replace it with an sp gun group or something to that effect?
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  #20  
Old August 1st, 2013, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: WIP Campaign "Kampfgruppe Weber"

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Do you think I should replace the pzgren platoon with something different?
Not really, but a few StuGs are probably more attractive than a pzgren plt.
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