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  #11  
Old September 1st, 2016, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Cross country speeds

Cross country speeds are never going to be accurate they are based on the unit class with no modifications for specific units.
Book cross country speeds are also suspect, some may be wrong, Cromwell 16 hexes really.
Its probably much like armour penetration what do the testers class as open ground.
Playing field, steep hill, hard or soft going, fields or rough maybe a small obstacle to climb.
A Tiger drivuing over a rough fields etc wouuld be closer to 3 than 6 hexes.

From Chris my serious offroad budy weight matters makes getting the rest right harder if to heavy. Ground pressure is far more important. Horsepower is not very important torgue is especially if the vehicles heavy.
The most important thing though is probably the drive train & suspension & this is the where you get the big variations.
A Land Rover can still outperform many vehicles once the going gets tough despite being underpowered.
He runs a heavily modified Nissan something wide tyres specialised drivetrain & shocks, motor tuned down to about 320hp from over 500 to produce serious flat torque curve because thats what you need offroad

In game this would just be represented as any 4x4 at the level of this game you cannot take into account the individual aspects of the vehicle like how good the suspension is off road.
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  #12  
Old September 6th, 2016, 07:02 AM

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Default Re: Cross country speeds

Thanks Scorpio.
In the British OOB
Inconsistencies are these.
These vehicles are class 3 and should be class 2 as they are 4x2 not ATwheeled, 4x4.
Morris LRC (Mk I?)
Humber Utility
LRDG Chevy ATG
LRDG Chevy AA
LRDG Chevy ATR
LRDG Scorpion
Lanchester AC
25mm Portee
2 Pdr Portee
3.7in Portee
I think also 3xMotorcycles

In the German OOB
These vehicles come in 4x2 and 4x4 but there are none in ATWheeled, they only appear in Wheeled. They should appear in class 2 and 3 (I know the OOB is full)
Opel
Buessing-NAG
Munitions LKW
These vehicles are class 3 and should be class 2 as they are 4x2 not ATwheeled, 4x4.
Kubelwagen VB
Schwimmwagen VB
Schwimmwagen
Kubelwagen
I think also Kraftrad, 3xBeiwagenKrad, Kraftradmelder

These vehicles are class 3 and should be class 2 as they are 6x4 not ATwheeled, 6x6.
Armoured Truck
Kfz 69 Protze
PzSPw. L202(h)
SdKfz 232 (6) B
SdKfz 231 (6)

I didnt provide this details originally as I dont know how the different classes are chosen and what they mean, but I have a better idea now I will do the other OObs if someone can confirm that 4x2 and 6x4 should be in class 2?

The Sdkfz 222 (also kubelwagen 4x2) and 231 are both in class 3, but the all wheel drive, all wheel steer 231 would have a much better cross country performance than 222 and kubelwagen. The Sdkfz 250 and 251 are in class 4 but especially the 250 had problems with too much weight on the front axles. They are not as good as fully tracked vehicles. I think sdkfz 231, terrapin, half tracks, the giant wheeled italian cars TL/AS etc and some others would be better put in a class between 3 and 4 in capabilities, if possible .

As for tracked vehicles cross country speeds I have used the speed in clear non-road for all the vehicles because othewise you cannot compare them. It looks to me that tracked vehicles get half their max speed in clear crosscountry. So I cannot see where my values are incorrect?
  #13  
Old September 6th, 2016, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: Cross country speeds

A 6x4 would be AT wheeled ( class 3 ) and there is no.......and will not be "a class between 3 and 4 in capabilities" added
  #14  
Old September 6th, 2016, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Cross country speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Thanks Scorpio.
In the British OOB
Inconsistencies are these.
These vehicles are class 3 and should be class 2 as they are 4x2 not ATwheeled, 4x4.
Morris LRC (Mk I?)



Morris LRC MK 2 was 4x4 so it's AT wheel and it's not going to change and neither is the way the game calculates movement points , it is, like many things in the game, a generalized abstraction suitable to the scale of the game but cannot recreate text book results for every vehicle ever made......."close enough" is "good enough

Don
  #15  
Old October 6th, 2016, 05:39 AM

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Default Re: Cross country speeds

Thank you DRG.
This post is in two parts this is PART 1

This is a list of the vehicles I think need to change movement classes.
Some short explanations and ideas.
In the OOBs almost all the 6x4 trucks are in class 2 wheel. I have complied with that convention here.
I think this is because the undriven front axle has the same liabilities (bogability) whether coupled to one or two driven axles.
This is I think because the extra traction/floatation of the 6x4's extra driven axle is cancelled out by the 6x4 vehicles extra weight.
The 6x4 armoured cars are sometimes in class 3 AT wheel.
As they are almost always an unaltered 6x4 truck chassis with added heavy armoured body,gun,ammo etc I have put them in class 2 wheel also.
So all 4x2 and 6x4 into class 2 wheel, and all 4x4 and 6x6 into class 3 A/T wheel.
If an undriven axle were always treated as a liability, Then half tracks could be moved from class 4 tracked into class 3 A/T wheel.
Three quarter tracks might be an exception to this.
I would make class 2 wheel vehicles off road speed 1/4 max speed.
This is because class 2 vehicles need to avoid soft or rough more often than AWD and so will often need to take a longer path. And I think also travel more carefully (slower) as they stick more easily
I also think class 2 wheel should get stuck more often than class 3 A/T wheel. Maybe this is the happens already?
I would put terrapin and the 8 wheeler ACs into class 4 tracked.
I am not a complete novice in this area, I used to drive a International No.I MkIII, and later the same type Truck in 4x2.
I redid the British and German OOBs, they have additional changes.
I think there must be a reason the LVTs and amphibians are class 0, I included them in this list anyway.
USA GMC or studebaker 6x4 (5 ton) and 6x6 (2&1/2 ton) trucks look identicle. Probably same for GMC also.
Geman Opel and Bussing Nag 4x2 and 4x4 look identicle.

Thailand
SPAA 2pdr (21) Picture is Type 94 SPAA with 20mm T98 gun(23)
20mm Gun Truck (23) Picture is 2 pdr on Morris 15cwt(21) or 15 cwt GS Bedford
Light Truck 4x4 (415) is (15 cwt GS Bedford) start date is 30 should be about 37.
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Type 94 Ho-Go (3)
Ford M1917 LT (6)
Carden Loyd 34 (8)
Carden Loyd 36 (9)
Type 95 Ha-Go (11)
Type 89 Yi-Go (12)
Type 97 Chi-Ha (13)
Type 2 Ka-Mi (16)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Amphib Truck (Toyota Su-Ki) (141)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Ammo Truck (230) (REO M35) start date is 44 should be 49. Replace with Isuzu Type 94 6x4 1937 69 kph (already in OOB).
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Bedford (270) (Bedford QL)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Nissan OP (238)
20mm Gun Truck (23) Picture is 2 pdr on Morris 15cwt or 15 cwt GS Bedford
I think motorcycles (104,105,106,107,108)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Vickers-Morris (25)
Type 92 Osaka (27)

Romania
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
T-38 (61)
T-60 (62)
Pzkpfw BT-7(r) (63)
T-28 (68)
JPz38(t) Hetzer (75)
Maresal M-05 (77)
These vehicles are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
I think M/C Squad (117,118,119,126)
These vehicles come in 4x2 and 4x4 but there are none in class 3 ATWheeled, they only appear in class 2 Wheeled. They could appear in class 3 A/T wheel
M.A.N (256) (MAN ML4500)
Buessing-NAG (207)
Opel Blitz (208)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
OA vz 27 (322)
Ehrhardt E-V/4 (318)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Tatra 57 (222)
Kubelwagen (221)
Skoda (215)
Ford Lt Truck (209)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
BA-6 (324)
BA_10 (325)
Praga AV (216)
ADGR (214)
Steyr 440 (217)
Steyr 640 (210,357)

Hungary
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
T-37A (176)
T-38 (178)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
39M Ford-Marmon (20)
These vehicles come in 4x2 and 4x4 but there are none in class 3 ATWheeled, they only appear in class 2 Wheeled. They could appear in class 3 A/T wheel
Opel Blitz (21)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Tatra T-72 (320)
Loszeres Szeker (231) (Ford 1 ton Model AA?)
Protze Scout (46)
These are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
I think Motorkerekp Raj (86) and Motorkerekp Gpu (87)

Czechoslovakia
These vehicles are 4x4 they are in class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel
AOP Light Truck (17) (Dodge 3/4ton WC 51) maybe start date of 11 43 should be when occupation ends April 45? or replace with tatra 13 or 23, both 4x2?
BA-64 (260)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Ammo Truck (148) (REO M35) start date is 43 should be 49. Replace with 6x4 Tatra 85, already in OOB or with with Tatra 84 6x6
1&1/2 Ton Truck (143) (USA Dodge wc63) Starts 11 43 maybe should start after occupation ends April 45? or replace with Tatra 84 6x6 or tatra 85 6x4 (already in OOB)
These vehicles are 6x6 or 6x4. They are class 2 wheel and can be class 3 A/T wheel.
2&1/2 Ton Truck (144) (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker) Starts 11 43 maybe should start after occupation ends April 45? or replace with Tatra 84 6x6 or tatra 85 6x4 (already in OOB)
Heavy Truck (146) (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker) Starts 11 43 maybe should start after occupation ends April 45? Czechoslovakia has many 6x6 trucks look at
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/m/tatrag.htm
BM-13 Katyusha (180) (USA studebaker US6?) Starts 11 43 maybe should start after occupation ends about April 45?
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
tatra AOP (142)
OA vz 30 (51)
Praga AV (139)
These are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
I think Motorcycles (106,305)

Sweden
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Sav m/43 75 (12)
Sav m/43 105 (13)
Pvkv m/43 (14)
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheel. (4x2)
PB m/31-F (26)
I think M/C MG Squad (109) M/C Patrol (152) Motorcycle Sqd (108)
These vehicles come in 4x2 and 4x4 but there are none in class 3 ATWheeled, they only appear in class 2 Wheeled. They could appear in class 3A/T wheel
Heavy Truck (111) (Buessing Nag)
Munitions Truck (230) (Buessing Nag)
These vehicles are 6x6 or 6x4. They are class 2 wheel and can be class 3 A/T wheel.
3 Ton Truck (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker) start date is 30 should be mid 41. Replace with Opel Blitze?
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
1&1/2 Ton Truck (110) (Dodge wc63) Start date for this vehicle is 1/30 should be mid 41, replace with Ford Lt Truck 4x2? 209 in romanian OOB
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Civilian car (142 )(Volvo TPV m/43)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
PB m/41 (24) (Landsverk?)

Finland
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
T-50E (13)
T-38 (109,159)
StuG M40G (135)
75mm M40 AT-Gun (136) is class 1 leg?
These vehicles come in 4x2 and 4x4 but there are none in class 3 ATWheeled, they only appear in class 2 Wheeled. They could appear in class 3 A/T wheel
Ammo truck (227,230) (Opel Blitz)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Landsverk 182 (110,117)
BA-6 (25)
BA-10 (26)
BA-3 (111)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Kubelwagen OP (34)

Italy
These vehicles are 4x4 they are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheel.
Fiat 621 (148)
I think Ricerca MC (277,280), MotoGuzzi (MG) (229,278,279,281,282), Guzzi Trialce (515)
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Carro H-35i (349)
Carro IVh (433)
Breda 61 (474)
Fiat 3000 L5/21 (513,532)
Fiat 3000 L5/30 (514,533)
M14 Sgombratore (530)
M4 Mine Flail (612)
These vehicles are 6x6 or 6x4. They can be class 2 wheel or class 3 A/T wheel.
Heavy Truck (745) (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker) replace with SPA 35 Dovunque 6x4 or SPA 41 Dovunque both already in OOB
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
SPA 41 Dovunque (399) start date is 46, should be 43.
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Autocannone 20 (11)
Autocannone 47 (477)
SPA 35 AS-47 (485)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Fiat 508CM (423)
Alfa Romeo 2500 (411,648) 648 is APC class?
Fiat 508CM OA (401)
Lancia IZ (65)
Lancia IZM (66)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Fiat 611 (picture has only 2 axles?)
Fiat 611 37/40 (picture has only 2 axles?)

Nationalist Spain
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
CL PzKpfw IB (92)
CL de Inf M17m (93)
CL de Inf M17c (94)
These vehicles are 4x2 they are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheel.
Recon Avanzado (234)
PzKfpw I/20 (291)
Trubria M 34 A4 (292)
Trubria M 36 (293)
CCI Tipo 1937 (294)
CM Rapido BT-5 (297,300)
Verdeja I (301)
CL de Inf Pz IA (302)
CL de Inf Pz IB (303)
CCI Tipo 1937 (304)
PzKpfw IVh (305)
PzKpfw IA (381)
CTV CV-33 (411)
CTV CV-35 (412)
CTV CV-35LF (413)
CV-35 (414)
These vehicles come in 4x2 and 4x4 but there are none in class 3 ATWheeled, they only appear in class 2 Wheeled. They could appear in class 2 and 3
Opel Azul (25,175) one is size 3 one is size 4
Opel (308)
Buessing-Azul (26) (Buessing Nag)
Carro Municion (230) (Buessing Nag)
These are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
I think Motocicleta (233) CTV MotoRicerca (445) CTV MotoGuzzi (446) CTV MotoGuzziMP (447)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
CB Modelo 39 (290)
CB BA-6 (289)
Kfz 231-6 Azul (16)
SdKfz 232 (6) B (30)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Lancia IZM (416)
Lancia IZ (415)
CTV Lancia IZ (409)
Lancia IZM (410)
Motor Iberica? (estblished 1954?) (Hispano-Suiza?) (19)
Kuebelwagn Azul (21)
Schwmmwgn Azul (22)
Kblwgn OA Azul (27)
Shwmwgn OA Azul (28)

Spanish Republic
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Negrillo Pz Ia (204)
Negrillo Pz Ib (205)
Negrillo PzI/20 (206)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Carro Camion (224)
CB Protegido (449) (Cami�n Protegido No 1 or Nash-Quad Armored Car)
These are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
I think Motocicleta (200) Motor Iberica (201)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
CB Valencia (UNL-35 chassis?) (450)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
CB Modelo 37a (AAC-1937?) (455)
CB Modelo 37b (AAC-1937?) (456)
CB BA-6 (458)
CB BA-3 (457)

Greece
Fiat SPA 35 (picture is Fiat spa cl39)
These vehicles are class 0/3 default/A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
I think MC Scouts, ELAS Motorcycle (55,56,57,58,59,60,485)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Mercedes LG65/3 (Wrong picture) (94)
Ammo Truck (232) (REO M35) start date is 43 should be 49. Replace with Mercedes LG65/3 6x6, already in OOB, has wrong picture.
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Chevy Med Truck (16) (is it meant to be Chevy 15 cwt C15A? or picture wrong?) (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker 6x4 or 6x6)
Chevy Heavy truck (17) (is it meant to be Heavy Utility C8A? or picture wrong?) (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker 6x4 or 6x6)
Chevy GWS 15cwt (85,87)
This vehicle is Halftrack. It is class 2 wheel and should be class 4 Track.
20mm SPAA (476)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
SdKfz 69 Protze (84)
Morris 15cwt (129)
Chevy AA LRDG (385)
Chevy AT LRDG (386)
BR 2 Pdr Portee (503)

Canada
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Arm'd Bulldozer (314)
Buffalo II (289)
Renault M1917 (278)
Renault M1917A1 (277)
Priest Kangaroo (195)
Buffalo IV (154)
Wasp Mk2C (128)
LVT-4 Amtrac (58)
Grizzly I (14)
Ram II (17)
Skink AA (18)
Ram I (19)
Churchill I (33)
Churchill III (34)
Churchill AVRE (37)
Crocodile (38)
Scorpion (39)
Ram Badger (42)
Priest (46)
Sexton (47)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Staghound + Rkt (350,351)
Staghound (50)
DUKW (57)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Medium truck (Austin K5) (54)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Heavy truck (Mack NO) (55) start date is 30 should be 43. Replace with AEC Marshal 3 ton 6x4 1936-40 or Scammel r100 6x4 1937-1946 18 mph max speed, Austin K3 3 ton 1939 6x4
Ammo truck (230) (Mack NO) start date is 30 should be 43. Replace with AEC Marshal 3 ton 6x4 1936-40 or Scammel r100 6x4 1937-1946 18 mph max speed, Austin K3 3 ton 1939 6x4
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
1935 Ford/GM AC (7)
This vehicles is 4x2 or 4x4 It is class 3 A/T wheel and can be class 2 wheel.
light truck (Ford F15?) (129)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
light truck (Ford F15 or CMP truck) (129)
I think 3xMotorcycles (312)
This vehicle is 6x6. It is in class 3 A/T wheel.
6 Ton Truck (Mack NO) start date is 30 should be 43. Replace with AEC Marshal 3 ton 6x4 1936-40 or Scammel r100 6x4 1937-1946 18 mph max speed, Austin K3 3 ton 1939 6x4

Norway
Dodge WC53 (151) (picture is WC51/52)
(39) bicycle squad is class 2 should be class 0?
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Daimler A/C (44)
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
BR Carrier AOP
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Chevrolet 3t (152)
These are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
I think POL Motorcycle (97)

Netherlands
DAF trucks (13,14,152) picture are wrong look at
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gdaf.htm
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
LVT-4 Amtrac (330)
VCL M1931 Amph (311)
Vickers LT 6B (309)
MHarrington 4TA (308)
Carden Loyd 36 (307)
KNIL Bulldozer (292)
Sexton (209)
Ram Kangaroo (207)
M3A2 Halftrack (38)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheeled.
Panserwagn M38 (53)
Pnsrwgn M38 Com (54)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Canal Truck (328,329) (Toyota Su-Ki?)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Ammo Car (229)
Chevy Med Truck (146) is it meant to be Chevrolet G506 or picture wrong?) (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker 6x4 or 6x6)
Staff Car (Body Type 3) (161)
Bedford Hvy Trk (147) (Bedford 3 ton)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Alvis Strausler (325)
Overvalwagen I (323)
Overvalwagen II (324)
Rolls Royce A/C (80)
M39 Van Doorne (Pantserwagen M39?) (10,55)
Panserwagn M36 Pantserwagen M36 (8)
Panserwagn M38 Pantserwagen M38 (9)
I think Motorcycle (84,132,78)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Ammo Truck (230) (REO M35) start date is 44 should be 49. Replace with DAF trado II/III, 1938 6x4. They are in OOB already as DAF med truck and DAF heavy truck (pictures are for USA GMC or studebaker 6x4 or 6x6 though).

Belgium
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
M3/M5 Halftrack (263)
Churchill AVRE (262)
Bulldozer (261)
Churchill IV (252)
FT-17M (200)
FT-17C (201)
Carrier 3in Mor (73)
M15A1 (53)
T.13 B3 (10)
T.13 B1/B2 (214)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Heavy truck (98) (GMC CCKW 2.5t Truck)
AEC Mk II (91)
AEC Mk III (92)
Daimler A/C (62)
Humber Mk.II (12)
Daimler A/C (13)
GMC 2.5t Truck (17) (start date 30 should be 41) and should be after occupation finishes? (about October 44)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Bedford (Bedford 3 ton)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
AOP Field Car (Ford Model BB) (240)
Ford 1ton Truck (219) (Model AA)
Morris 15cwt (95) picture is 15 cwt GS Bedford
1.5 Ton Truck (67) Citroen (U23?)
I think FN Tricar (203)
I think FN AA Tricar (204) Motorcycle Sec (208)k Motorcycle Sec (209)
This vehicles are 6x6 and class 3 A/T wheel
Ammo Truck (229) (REO M35) start date is 30 should be 49. Replace with Brossel TAL? (Their Heavy artillery tractor or Bedford 3 ton (in OOB already))
  #16  
Old October 6th, 2016, 05:41 AM

Kiwikkiwik Kiwikkiwik is offline
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Default Re: Cross country speeds

PART 2

Nationalist China
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheel.
Medium Truck (Zis 5?, Ford truck?) (14,135,138)
These vehicles can be 4x2 or 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and can be class 3 A/T Wheel
Heavy Truck (Buessing-NAG) (15)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 Wheel.
BA_10
BA-6
Armrd Truck /Gn (Kfz 70 Protze)
Armrd Truck /MG? (Kfz 70 Protze) (266)
K 69 Utility (Kfz 70 Protze) (38,41)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 Wheel.
light truck (15 cwt GS Bedford?) (801)
BA-20 (273)
Lancia IZM (267)
I think Motorcycle (255) Motorcycle MG (256)

Yugoslavia
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Stuart SPG (23)
BT-7 (140)
Somua S-35 (280)
H-39 (281)
PzKw I (303)
These vehicles can be 4x2 or 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and can be class 3 A/T Wheel
Opel (13)

These vehicles are 6x4 or 6x6. They are class 2 wheel and can be class 3 A/T Wheel
Heavy Truck (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker) start date is 1/44 should it be 10/44 when soviets liberated belgrade?
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 Wheel.
Armoured Truck (Fiat 626?) (457)
I think Motorcycle MG (262)
AEC Mk II (100) is light tank class (12) should be Heavy AC class (108)?

Bulgaria
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T Wheel.
SdKfz 222 (47)
SdKfz 223 (Fu) (53)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T Wheel
MB L4500 (42)
These vehicles are 6x6 or 6x4. They are class 2 wheel and can be class 3 A/T Wheel
2&1/2 Ton Truck (USA GMC or studebaker)
These vehicles can be 4x2 or 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and can be class 3 A/T Wheel
OpelBlitz (60)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 Wheel.
Steyr 640
Praga AV
Krupp Protze (48)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 Wheel.
Ford Lt Truck
Citroen T23
Kubelwagen (52)
Kubelwagen OP (54)
Skoda (55)
I think Motorcycle squad (66,67,70,71,101,102)

India
These vehicles are 6x6 they are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T Wheel.
DUKW (57)
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Buffalo IV (58)
Wasp (128)
Arm'd Bulldozer (380)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T Wheel.
Bedford (Bedford QL) (55)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 Wheel.
Morris 15cwt (129) picture is 15 cwt GS Bedford
Humber Utility (265)
2 Pdr Portee (430)

Germany
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
PzKw I B (1)
Minenraum IV H (135)
These vehicles come in 4x2 and 4x4 but there are none in class 3 ATWheeled, they only appear in class 2 Wheeled. They can appear in class 2 and 3 (I know the OOB is full)
Opel (80)
Buessing-NAG (81)
Munitions LKW (Buessing-NAG) (230)
These vehicles are 4x2 They are class 3 and should be class 2 wheeled.
Kubelwagen VB (173)
Schwimmwagen VB (174)
Schwimmwagen (183)
Kubelwagen (195)
I think also Kraftrad (109,511,512,805,806,896), 3xBeiwagenKrad (949), Kraftradmelder (981)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 and should be class 2 wheel
PsW 203(r)
Steyr ADGZ
Armoured Truck (983)
Kfz 69 Protze (453)
Kfz 70 Protze (155)
PzSPw. L202(h) (541)
SdKfz 232 (6) B (176)
SdKfz 231 (6) (70,392,833) (833 is a light armoured car class, should be heavy armoured car class?)

Australia/New Zealand
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 track
Mk IIa (1)
50cal Halftrack (53)
Buffalo IV (58)
Wasp (128)
Arm'd Bulldozer (177)
These vehicles are 6x6 They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel
DUKW (57)
These vehicles are 4x4 They are class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel
Heavy Truck (Austin K5) (55)
Ford Dingo (115,149)
This vehicle is 6x6. It is class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel
Ammo lorry (229) (Mack NO) (Start date of 30 should be 43) Replace with AEC Marshal 3 ton 6x4 1936-40 or Scammel r100 6x4 1937-1946 18 mph max speed, Austin K3 3 ton 1939 6x4
These vehicles are 4x2. they are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel
Morris 15cwt (125,129,152)
2 Pdr Portee (Morris 15 cwt or 15 cwt GS Bedford) (206,231)
47mm Portee (Morris 15 cwt or 15 cwt GS Bedford) (207)

Chinese communists
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheel
Medium Truck (135)
These vehicles are 4x2 or 4x4. They are class 2 Wheel and can also be class 3 A/T wheel
Heavy Truck (15) (Buessing Nag)
These vehicles are 4x2 they are class 3 Wheel and should be class 2 wheel
Light Truck (12) (Ford, ZIS 5?)
light truck (744) (15 cwt GS Bedford)
I think Motorcycle MotorcycleMG (255,256)
Lancia IZM (267)
BA-20 (273)
These vehicles are 6x4 They are class 3 Wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
BA-6 (275)
BA-10 (274)
K 69 Utility (Kfz 70 Protze) (38,41)
K 69 AOP (64)
Armrd Truck /Gn (Kfz 70 Protze) (266)
Armrd Truck /MG? (Kfz 70 Protze) (272)

USMC
Studebaker 6x4 (5 ton) and 6x6 (2&1/2 ton) trucks look identicle. Probably same for GMC also.
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked
LVT(A) 1 (423,021)
LVT 2 (301,16)
LVT 2(A) (288,017)
LVT(A) 4 (022)
LVT 4 (19)
LVT 1 (111,300)
LVT 1(AC) (299)
LVT 3 (113)
LVT(A) 4b (114)
LVT 4 Flame (206)
LVT(A) 5 (207)
LVT(A) 4 Flame (210)
Arm'd Bulldozer (231)
M1917A1 263
LVT 1 FO (378)
LVT(A) 2 FO (382,379)
These vehicles are 6x6 or 6x4. They are class 0 default and can be class 2 wheel or class 3 A/T Wheel
2&1/2 w/AAMG (374) (Start date is 1930 should be mid 41)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 wheel
1&1/2 Ton Truck (37) (Studebaker)
1&1/2 Ton Truck (372) (Chevrolet)

USA
Studebaker 6x4 (5 ton) and 6x6 (2&1/2 ton) trucks look identicle. Probably same for GMC also.
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked
M4 Flail (14)
M8 HMC (19)
T28E1 MGMC (24)
M16 MGMC (25)
M19 Duster (26)
LVT 4 (29)
T1E3 MineRoller (52)
M15 MGMC (64)
M15A1 MGMC (65)
60mm Mor H/T (67)
M1917 (107)
M1917A1 (108)
M4 AOP (142)
M3A3 (242)
M3A5 (243)
M3A5 CS (256)
LVT(A) 1 (318)
M-H T16 (340)
Arm'd Bulldozer (379)
LVT 1 (AC) (552,553)
LVT 2 (554)
LVT(A) 2 (555)
LVT(A) 4 (720)
These vehicles are 6x6 or 6x4. They are class 0 default and can be class 2 wheel or class 3 A/T Wheel
2&1/2 w/AAMG (170) (Start date is 1930 should be mid 41)
2&1/2 Ton Truck (38) (Start date is 1930 should be mid 41)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel
M8 Greyhound (28)
DUKW (31)
These vehicles are 4x2. they are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheel
1/2 Ton Truck (370) (kc-1)
Truck AOP (374) (kc-1?)
Chevy Car (371)
These vehicles are 6x6 or 6x4. They are class 2 Wheeled and should be class 3 A/T wheel
Heavy Truck (399,221) (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker or maybe REO 2&1/2 ton prototype) (Start date is 1930/35 should be mid 41)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 wheel
1&1/2 Ton Truck (37) (Studebaker)
1&1/2 Ton Truck (372) (Chevrolet)
I think motorcycle (223), motorcycle squad (222)

Soviet Union
Studebaker 6x4 (5 ton) and 6x6 (2&1/2 ton) trucks look identicle. Probably same for GMC also.
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked
T-40 (6,368)
T-44/100 (127)
MS-1/T-18 (170,171)
T-18m (177)
T-50 (182,519)
T-80 (293,527)
T-44 (294)
LT Mk VII (309)
T-40S (369,328)
T-38 (334)
T-30 (335)
T-50E (516)
T-50-57 (731)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel
DUKW (93)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 Wheeled and should be class 3 A/T wheel
AOP Light Truck (134) (Dodge wc63) Start date for this vehicle is 1/30 should be mid 41 (Change picture to Gaz or Zis 4x2 and leave in class 2?)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 Wheeled and should be class 3 A/T wheel
BA-27 (364)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 wheel
BA-10 (41)
BA-3 (310)
BA-6 (311)
SU-1-12 (623, 643) (on gaz or zis truck)
These vehicles are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 wheel I think
Motorcycles (305,306) 3xMotorcycles (754,755)

Vichy France
These vehicles are 4x2. they are class 3 and should be class 2 wheel.
AMD 80 (197)
Laffly 80 AM (408)
Laffly 50 AM (391)
Citroen (67)
Panhard 165/175 (393)
I think Sec Motocyclist (39,161,178,187,365,366,367,368,369,450,451)
These vehicles are 6x6. they are class 2 and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Camion Munition (230) (REO M35) start date is 44 should be 49. (Change to Laffly S35T? 6x6 or Buessing Nag 4x4?)
Light Truck (251) (Dodge WC63) (Change to Laffly S20T? 6x6)
Veh Observation (66) (Dodge WC63) (Change to Laffly S20T? 6x6)

France
These are class 0 default should be class 4 track
M3 75mm GMC (132)
M4 81mm MMC (133)
60mm Mor H/T (134)
Buffalo IV (166)
M15A1 AAMC (293)
M12 155mm GMC (297)
Obusier M8 HMC (298)
Lloyd Carrier (341)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 and should be class 2 wheel.
Citroen (67) (U23?)
Conus Gun (413) (Morris 15 cwt or 15 cwt GS Bedford)
These vehicles are 4x4. they are class 2 and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
3-Ton Lorry (350) (Austin K5)

Japan
These vehicles are 6x4. they are class 0 default should be class 2 wheeled.
Chiyoda A/C (23)
Type 91 So-Mo (298)
Type 92 SNLF (22)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 0 default and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Toyota Su-Ki (109)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 and should be class 2 wheel.
Overvalwagen (335) (there is a possibility a few may have been 4x4)
Nissan 180 (25) (Introduced 1941 not 1930)
I think also Motorcycles (93,440) and Sanrinsha (439)

Italian social republic
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Alfa Romeo 2500 (411, 648)
Fiat 508C OA (401)
Lancia 3Ro APC (67)
I think also Motoguzzi (281) Motoguzzi(MG) (282), Guzzi Trasporto (515)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Semovente CA 20 (11) (Fiat Dovunque 33)
Dovunque35 Prot (361) (Fiat Dovunque 33)

Manchukuo
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
Nissan 180 (25)
I think also Motorcycles (93,440)

Slovac Republic
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel
Tatra 57 AOP (143)
I think Motorcycles (305)
These vehicles are 6x4. They are class 3 A/T wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
OA vz 30 (51)
Praga AV (139)
Tatra Truck AOP (142)

LWP
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 0 default and are should be class 2 wheel.
I think motorcycles (112)
This vehicle is 6x6 or 6x4. It is class 0 default and can be class 2 wheel or class 3 A/T wheel.
Studebaker (180) (Picture is USA GMC or studebaker)

Poland
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheel.
15cwt Lt Truck (373) picture is 15 cwt GS Bedford
30cwt GS Truck (374)
Berliet CBA (829)
Chevrolet 157 (376)
Rolls-Royce A/C (479)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 0 default should be class 3 A/T Wheel
3 Ton GS Truck (382)
Staghound AA (184)
Humber Mk.II (478)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 0 default should be class 3 A/T Wheel
6 Ton GS Truck (383) (Mack NO) (Start date of 40 should be 43 or maybe replace with Praga RV already in OOB)
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked
75mm SP Autocar (166)
Renault FT-17 (887)
Renault FT (456)
Renault FT 37mm (457)
Arm'd Bulldozer (489)
Halftrack SPM (136)
Hotchkiss H-39 (477)
wasp (33)
buffalo IV (114)
Light Truck AOP (123), picture is dodge wc63 (6x6). Start date is 30 should be 43. Or replace with Laffly V15T (4x4) already in OOB.
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 A/T Wheel and should be class 2 wheel.
15cwt GS Truck (381) (15 cwt GS Bedford)
30cwt GS Truck (374) Picture is kc-1 should it be Austin K30?
Wz.34 (570)
Wz.34 II (572)
Wz.34 (37mm) (575)
Wz.34 II (37mm) (577)
Humber Utility (363)
Polski Fiat 508 (368)
I think also Motorcycle (270)
This vehicle is 4x4. It is class 2 wheel and should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Ehrhardt M.17 (684) (however suspension, wheelbase, wheelsize etc probably sets it into class 2)

Great Britian
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Avenger
Black Prince (190)
Churchill III (664,153)
Churchill Na75 (227,228)
Churchill VI (229)
M22 Locust (297)
Churchill II CS (171)
M3 SP 75mm (188,199,200)
Mk VIb (298)
Churchill Ics2 (663)
DUKW (57)
Buffalo IV (58,306,)
Wasp (128,560)
Arm'd Bulldozer (299)
Priest Kangaroo (406)
Buffalo II (710)
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 3 and should be class 2 wheel.
Morris LRC (Mk I) (558) (MkII is 4x4!)
Humber Utility (285)
LRDG Chevy ATG (252)
LRDG Chevy AA (241)
LRDG Chevy ATR (242)
LRDG Scorpion (706)
Lanchester AC (130)
25mm Portee (216) (Morris 15cwt(21) or 15 cwt GS Bedford)
2 Pdr Portee (217) (Morris 15cwt(21) or 15 cwt GS Bedford)
3.7in Portee! (592) (Morris 15cwt or 15 cwt GS Bedford) (37mm?) (292) picture looks like 37mm.
I think also 3xMotorcycles (690)
These vehicles are 4x4. They are class 2 but should be class 3 A/T wheel.
C9/B 40mm SPAA (387) (On Morris C8)
Medium lorry (Austin K5) (54)
Bedford (Bedford QL) (294)
These vehicles are 6x6. They are class 2 but should be class 3 A/T wheel.
Ammo lorry (230) (Mack NO) (Start date of 30 should be 43) Replace with AEC Marshal 3 ton 6x4 1936-40 or Scammel r100 6x4 1937-1946 18 mph max speed, Austin K3 3 ton 1939 6x4
  #17  
Old October 6th, 2016, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Cross country speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Thank you DRG.
This post is in two parts this is PART 1

This is a list of the vehicles I think need to change movement classes.

SNIP - SNIP - SNIP------

Canada
These vehicles are class 0 default and should be class 4 tracked.
Arm'd Bulldozer (314)
Buffalo II (289)
Renault M1917 (278)
Renault M1917A1 (277)
Priest Kangaroo (195)
Buffalo IV (154)
Wasp Mk2C (128)
LVT-4 Amtrac (58)
Grizzly I (14)
Ram II (17)
Skink AA (18)
Ram I (19)
Churchill I (33)
Churchill III (34)
Churchill AVRE (37)
Crocodile (38)
Scorpion (39)
Ram Badger (42)
Priest (46)
Sexton (47)

It's too bad you didn't ask what class 0 default means in relation to unitclasses BEFORE you created these two lists.

I used this section of the Canadian list as an example......every one of those class 0 default units ARE TRACKED BY DEFAULT..... changing them and most of the others you have on that endless list to class 4 tracked would be a complete waste of my time as NOTHING would change to the way they move in the game as the "default" movement for the unitclasses is set in code, the ONLY reason to enter a value other than default would be to override the default and that snippet of tracked vehicles in the Canadian OOB you want me to change to class 4 tracked are already being treated as tracked BY DEFAULT

any "tank" class is tracked BY DEFAULT
so.......
light tanks are tracked BY DEFAULT
tankettes are tracked BY DEFAULT
Engineering tanks are tracked BY DEFAULT
etc
etc
etc..............


therefore for those unit classes and other " tanky" classes class 0 default = class 4 tracked

The reason there are tanks classed as 4 when others are classed as 0 is because early on the OOB's were done by various people many of whom didn't understand the way the game handles class 0 default either and went with the "safe" class 4 ........sometimes I've made things class 4 tracked when they could have been class 0 default .. " just because"..... just because I know it doesn't matter and either way gets what I want

another good example of not understanding how the game works and creating work for no reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Poland
These vehicles are 4x2. They are class 0 default and should be class 2 wheel.

--SNIP LONG LIST----
for those vehicles in those unitclasses class 0 default IS class 2 wheel.

The ONLY things on these list worth considering are the handful of trucks classed as 2WD that should be AWD and vise versa BUT..... I have no desire or time to wade through all the assumptions you have made regarding class 0 default in those two lists so you have created a huge amount of work for yourself because you didn't think to ask what class 0 default represents in the game


Don

Last edited by DRG; October 6th, 2016 at 09:55 AM..
  #18  
Old October 7th, 2016, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Cross country speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Thanks Scorpio.
In the British OOB
Inconsistencies are these.
These vehicles are class 3 and should be class 2 as they are 4x2 not ATwheeled, 4x4.
Morris LRC (Mk I?)
Humber Utility

The Humber ‘Box’ Heavy Utility was well known and widely used as the only British 4x4 utility vehicle; it was a forerunner of the modern SUV.

This vehicle had a road speed of 101Kmh. It had the same powerful engine as the Snipe.

Here's some info:

The most important Humber apart from the Snipe was the 4x4 heavy utility. This was a remarkable vehicle, being the only four-wheel-drive machine of its size made in Britain at the time. It was intended for the same type of work as the Ford WOT2 being able to transport staff officers at high speed (maximum 63 mph) over good roads and at the same time to keep going were roads non-existent, on sand or deep mud.

Page 12, G.N. Georgano, World War Two Military Vehicles Transport and Halftracks, Osprey Automotive 1994


Cross
  #19  
Old October 7th, 2016, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Cross country speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Thanks Scorpio.
In the British OOB
Inconsistencies are these.
These vehicles are class 3 and should be class 2 as they are 4x2 not ATwheeled, 4x4.
Morris LRC (Mk I?)
Humber Utility
LRDG Chevy ATG
LRDG Chevy AA
LRDG Chevy ATR
LRDG Scorpion
Lanchester AC
25mm Portee
2 Pdr Portee
3.7in Portee
I think also 3xMotorcycles

I thought the LRDG vehicles had been given 4WD status because they were adapted and stripped down for cross-country desert operations. They all had sand ramps as standard equipment. I recall reading that they had better desert cross-country ability than many 4WD vehicles, but I'd have to search for that reference.

I believe the Kubelwagen and a few other vehicles - like Motorcycles - were also given 4WD status because of their cross-country reputation.


Cross
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  #20  
Old October 7th, 2016, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Cross country speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross View Post
The Humber ‘Box’ Heavy Utility was well known and widely used as the only British 4x4 utility vehicle; it was a forerunner of the modern SUV.

This vehicle had a road speed of 101Kmh. It had the same powerful engine as the Snipe.

Here's some info:

The most important Humber apart from the Snipe was the 4x4 heavy utility. This was a remarkable vehicle, being the only four-wheel-drive machine of its size made in Britain at the time. It was intended for the same type of work as the Ford WOT2 being able to transport staff officers at high speed (maximum 63 mph) over good roads and at the same time to keep going were roads non-existent, on sand or deep mud.

Page 12, G.N. Georgano, World War Two Military Vehicles Transport and Halftracks, Osprey Automotive 1994


Cross

Here's some images of the Humber Utility:


Humber Box (4WD, 101Kmh, prod: 6,500)


Humber Box (desert)


It came in soft-top and hard-top versions:



Cross
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