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  #11  
Old December 27th, 2011, 09:17 AM

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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

Both is as it should be. Though the Japanese might have been even more fanatical than the SS as a result of the way the Bushi-Do permeated Japanese society after the Meji Reforms.

In the past few years there has been some hints that more Japaneese troops actually tried to surrender than were allowed to, but were killed out of hand anyway.

This would be the natural result of a mixture of the racist attitude of westerners at the time, the war having hardened the soldiers (and the Marines were damn hard to start with), propaganda, the actual experience of veterans who would not expect a Jap to surrender- or if he did it would be a ruse to get close enough to detonate a last hand grenade, fright, shock, and propably many other factors. Much like German soldiers on the East Front in fact. These two theatres of war were incredibly hard and cruel, with predictable results for the poor guys deployed there.

It is a field of study I have not looked into much (I am a historian, but not specialising there), but I believe there is a Ph.D. Thesis there for any who dare.
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  #12  
Old March 27th, 2019, 12:33 AM

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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ts4EVER View Post
I rarely play scenarios in the pacific theatre because fighting the japanese is extremely frustrating at times. Often it comes down to endless slugfests with little in the way of maneuvre.
Really. In a just-completed British LC delay scenario I decided to take a break from North Africa to see what Japanese troops were like during their flood tide of conquest.

It was April 1942 in Burma. My forces were mostly elite or high veteran and I expected a cakewalk. Set up most maneuver elements forward, with tanks and MGs waiting to catch enemy forces advancing through grass, with infantry in depressions, reverse slopes or trees to bushwhack any units that made it through the kill zones.

While their tanks were laughably easy to deal with, they had plenty of artillery and air. Jungle grass interfered with LOS on infantry advancing in the open as they just kept coming. It seemed they had special toughness and spotting abilities; when they got close to my infantry they'd move, occasionally take casualties and return fire from pinned status with seemingly uncanny accuracy. Meanwhile my guys wasted so much ammo with such little result that many ran out of HE before the battle was two-thirds over (there were fifty-one turns in all).

To make a long story short my forces lost about two of three companies of infantry, all six MGs, and two of four ATGs doing emergency rifle duty (they actually killed several depleted infantry units and a marksman before going under). A single Valentine rushed forward from reserve managed to hold off a gaggle of them with help from scouts and shrunken infantry squads but a breakthrough in another sector yielded several objectives, enough to allow the Sons of Nippon to suffer only a marginal loss.

While Andy says only Japanese experience and morale are affected the battle results screen for Player 2 displayed just fairly good
numbers, averaging maybe 75-80 for both. Apparently there are hidden variables which account for their potency and persistence in the face of supposedly overwhelming firepower (including repeated whacks from single 60-pounder and 4.5-inch batteries).

Needless to say survivors of this bloodbath are taking the next transport back to North Africa. They'll take SS fanatics over Japanese Supermen any day. Cheers!

Last edited by jivemi; March 27th, 2019 at 07:52 AM..
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  #13  
Old March 27th, 2019, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

[quote=jivemi;844816]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ts4EVER View Post

While Andy says only Japanese experience and morale are affected the battle results screen for Player 2 displayed just fairly good
numbers, averaging maybe 75-80 for both. Apparently there are hidden variables which account for their potency and persistence in the face of supposedly overwhelming firepower (including single 60-pounder and 4.5-inch batteries)
The variables unique to the Japanese in this game are all mentioned in Andy's reply in post #3. There are no other "hidden" advantages beyond the ones he mentioned

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  #14  
Old March 27th, 2019, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

Oppose the Japanese with stuff they cannot easily counter. The US Stuart tank is excellent against them at short ranges - not just for the 37mm HE, but the 3 other MGs. It also deals with their tanks just fine. If Russian, the T-60 with its 20mm that has a 1 hex blast radius and a decent supply of HE is a good choice. Both are cheap. Bren carriers, with a scout team on board to spot that do not get too close or dismount can provide useful armoured MG support and spot better due to the infantry passengers carried (so should scout alongside or just ahead of your tanks). The M3 mediums are not brilliant versus the Germans, but are battlefield queens in the Pacific - if there is a CS version available with more 75mm HE in your OOB, use those. Shermans and T-34 are overkill, they are like far Eastern "Tigers". Just try to keep armour 2-3 hexes away from enemy infantry.

If you have good fields of fire, MMG and HMG sections following up your infantry are good, especially if fired at clusters of Japanese infantry that have bunched up due to the blast circle effect. Snipers are handy as well - especially for counter sniper work, as are the MMG sections, though less so.

Being an infantry-based army they do not like artillery. In a LC, your FOO and core arty will gain experience and become quick-response arty. Have plenty of mortars and 105mm or 25 pounder (smaller shells don't give them craters to hide in). Have ammo supply for your on-map arty. If you like the 60mm mortar - provide half-tracks to move these short ranged tubes up with the advance. Drop bricks on any annoying Japanese, suppress his on-map arty with some counter-battery fires etc. Any infantry advance of yours should be close (3-5 hexes say) behind a belt of fire that you advance a couple of hexes each turn - i.e. a rolling barrage.
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Old March 27th, 2019, 07:48 AM

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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

Thanks guys. Forgot to mention this was a delay battle (since corrected) and was already arty overloaded at 17% force value with a 43-point penalty. Still, I'd been overloaded in previous defensive battles at 21% and won handily giving away 150 or so. Since the Japanese are infantry-heavy I should've adjusted to circumstances.

No doubt my biggest mistake was presuming they'd act like other opponents and start routing away at a certain threshold of fleeing units. But since most didn't behave "normally" my attempts to accelerate their flight by premature infantry counterattacks were doomed to failure. Better to keep infantry under cover and let them come to you after they've run the gauntlet of MGs, arty and tanks. They just don't quit.
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  #16  
Old March 27th, 2019, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jivemi View Post

No doubt my biggest mistake was presuming they'd act like other opponents and start routing away at a certain threshold of fleeing units. .....snip...... They just don't quit.
The battle for Iwo Jima lasted 5 weeks and featured a massive aerial and naval pre-bombardment to the extent that Chester Nimitz is quoted saying "Well, this will be easy. The Japanese will surrender Iwo Jima without a fight."

N O T H I N G was easy about fighting the troops of Imperial Japan for anyone who fought them....including now you
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  #17  
Old March 27th, 2019, 10:08 AM
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Laugh Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

In the 2019 patch/upgrade there are quite a few scenarios that pit either the US or the USMC against the Japanese, they are hard to fight against but not impossible. Use tactics that Andy suggested above. I'll have a small (2-3 companies for the USMC vs. 3-6 from the Japanese) on Guadalcanal around Alligator Creek in a 4-5 Mini-CG out in 3-4 weeks if you'd like to test that out.

Here is the USMC (I recommend playing as USMC against the Japanese until you're ready for a challenge, then take the USA, Russia or GB, ANAZC) as player one for 2019 (via the default sql query supplied, I can provide more info later):

Code:
ScenarioID	Title
499 		Wilkes Island, Wake, 12/41
500		Tanambogo Islet, 8/44
50 		Into The Valley 10/42
512 		Lambeti Plantation 6/43
625		Raider Ridge 6/43
49 		Stark and Bitter Hours 11/43
492 		Tarawa Atoll, 11/43
513 		Tarawa's Crimson Tides 11/43
73 		Return to Guam 7/44
501 		Guam, Marianas, 7/44
401 		Peleliu #1, D-Day 9/44
402 		Peleliu #2, D-Day 9/44
403 		Peleliu #3, D-Day 9/44
404 		Peleliu #4, D+1,  9/44
405 		Peleliu #5, D+1   9/44
502 		The 1,000 Yard Stare 10/44
503 		Split Down the Middle 10/44
63 		Iwo Jima: First Ashore 2/45
64 		Iwo Jima: Sever The Head 2/45
65 		Iwo Jima: Take Suribachi 2/45
66 		Iwo Jima: The Meat Grinder 2/45
457 		Iwo Jima  D-Day 2/1945
495 		A Common Virtue, 2/45
518 		Charlie Dog Ridge, 2/45
67 		Iwo Jima:  Last Gasp 3/45
And these are all the ones where the USMC is defending (or player two):
ScenarioID Title
Code:
498 		Wake Island, 12/41
691		The Rock 5/42
39 		Bloody Ridge 10/42
516 		Matanikau, Guadalcanal, 10/42
386 		Bougainville 11/43
400 		Tarawa, 11/43
490 		Solomon Blues, 11/43
Personally I think that 625 and 691 would be good USMC vs. Japan scenarios but I am biased since I created them

Attached is all the scenarios (in the 2019 patch up to 3/27/2019) where Japan is player two.
Attached Files
File Type: 7z All-Japan-Player-2.7z (1.5 KB, 62 views)
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  #18  
Old March 27th, 2019, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

Just tried a meeter UK v Japan in Burma - and got to meet the Imperial Guards (The nasty bunch that marched some nurses into the surf and machine-gunned them in Hong Kong, IIRC..)

HQ, OP, 2 troops 25 pounder, 4 bishops (as sturmartillerie), 6 Humber A/C, 3 scout sections of 3 carrier + 3 scouts, a Stuart squadron, 2 platoons of grunts.

Simply charge forward and take all objectives, easy as you have the speed and set up reception committees with Stuarts interspersed with the carriers, scouts stay mounted.

The Imperial Guards arrive and we start attriting them. Arty eventually arrives - Imperial Guards do rout, they will be back soon though (like SS).

20mm AT rifles are a pain on lighter armour - lost a carrier or 2 to those. Stuarts not bothered by them.

Japanese planes arrive, delete a carrier or 2 and a couple of the armoured cars. Must remember to buy flak!.

Some infantry tanks arrive in the North - stuarts cream them, and some little tankettes with a 37mm popgun in the South - target practice for Stuarts.

About halfway through, Japanese advances in 3 spots repulsed.

Stuarts alone may not have done so well - but having scouts in carriers intermingled helps spot the enemy advance.

Will not bother with the Bishops next time - expensive if used as arty, and as sturmartillerie not brilliant, a CS-tank would have been cheaper, and not incurred arty overload.
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  #19  
Old March 27th, 2019, 01:59 PM

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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

Another interesting scenario involving the Japanese is 393 The Walls Breached. The Japanese have mostly infantry and only a little artillery. You have to defend a town against their attack. The catch is that you play as the Chinese and have no artillery at all...
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  #20  
Old March 27th, 2019, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Will Japanese soldiers fight to the end?

That's the kind of scenario where you start to think " if only I had a tankette".........
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