.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Raging Tiger- Save $8.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old September 23rd, 2019, 12:28 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,373
Thanks: 107
Thanked 1,339 Times in 923 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Artillery settings

Precisely the above was why Artillery Overload was introduced. To penalise the players who but stupid amounts of artillery. (Takes me back to the 1/300 tabletop days, back in the 1970s when there were no army lists and 1 guy at the Nationals turned up with nothing but off-map artillery and a dozen FOO jeeps to take the objectives and spot for the guns - the next year, official army lists appeared )

And if you really think you need the artillery, by all means go for the overload - the penalty is not too much, so if you give away say 300 points, that's the cost of an MBT which is neither here nor there, just make sure the extra guns work hard to make up for the penalty points given away.

Planes do not count - they are limited by flight numbers.

Ammo carriers do count - they are a force multiplier that only humans can take advantage of.

As to the reduced response of D/S and G/S artillery - there is no delay if they are used as pre-programmed artillery so they are generally only useful for the attacker, as cheaper planned strikes. They fall on pre-plotted gold spots at the same delay as others, so may be useful for cheap defensive fires if you plot your FDF spots correctly.

And also, I will be looking into artillery overload for scenarios - and probably not charging it for these since the designer knows what was needed.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mobhack For This Useful Post:
  #12  
Old September 23rd, 2019, 02:18 PM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 1,943
Thanks: 399
Thanked 779 Times in 568 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: Artillery settings

At first I had my doubts about the "penalty" as I've always had a "combined arms" view in my force makeup. Within a short time I was much more comfortable with it, because as Andy pointed out, a live opponent in this game could do the same thing with a few decent armored recon or helicopter borne troop (Touch and go.) units, as he pointed out on for that that "table top" tourney.

And since it was brought up...
You having ammo units (And I do for "RL" reasons.) against the AI is a huge advantage and one I've advocated in the past, the AI should have the option of as well.

[b]Bottom-line from many years past posts is, it would be a coding nightmare.[b]

Whether intended or not, the AI WILL ON A CONSISTANT BASIS TARGET YOUR AMMO SUPPLY UNITS. It stresses your logistics, it's an easy kill and with the primary and secondary explosions it usually will cause collateral damage to any light units or worse and at a minimum suppress them even to the point of routing them based on their "experience" at the time.

I still buy them but for what units, well the reader will just figure out what's best for them. The AI knows for sure.

Andy for you or Don, and I'm sure I've asked this in the past and have forgotten the answer, but I thought I've seen the AI get charged for "artillery overload" as well?

Could you please enlighten me (And possibly some others.) as to the correct answer?

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old September 23rd, 2019, 02:35 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,373
Thanks: 107
Thanked 1,339 Times in 923 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Artillery settings

The AI will get charged if it overbuys. I thought I would have to do a lot of rework to the pick lists, but it turned out that the AI generally kept within the limits I had determined anyway - bar the occasional time it goes heavy on guns (e.g. UK/USA later war in WW2 sometimes buys a lot, but that is historic).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mobhack For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old September 23rd, 2019, 04:04 PM
Suhiir's Avatar

Suhiir Suhiir is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,375
Thanks: 311
Thanked 553 Times in 426 Posts
Suhiir is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Artillery settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredgysgt View Post
Just bought a Battalion of Marines with a Tank company an LAI Company and all the artillery you listed first fight is against the Taliban in Afghanistan, no penalty this fight but yes that has gotten me a penalty before.
The full tank and LAI companies made the total non-artillery point cost high enough to not cause artillery overload. Typically a Bn MEU has a platoon of each, and frequently no LAI at all. The more recent formations don't suffer this much due to the the improvements in LVTs and LAVs, thermal sights dramatically increase their unit cost.

Overall I don't have any real "issues" with the current system tho. I just find it slightly amusing.
__________________
Suhiir - Wargame Junkie

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein

Last edited by Suhiir; September 23rd, 2019 at 04:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old September 23rd, 2019, 04:17 PM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 1,943
Thanks: 399
Thanked 779 Times in 568 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: Artillery settings

That's what I thought, and was hoping I wasn't seeing things that weren't there!?!

I usually play some "combination" of countries against Russia and China mostly. It's been my experience that beside setting my AI preference to "Tank Heavy" most of the time (If not all of the time.) it's also "Artillery Heavy" as well with a combination of Off Map/Mortar/On Map (Grads and such.) which, if you think about it, is what both those countries are able to do in life as embolden above.

I do not short the AI on points as this is not a realistic thing to do considering their "RL" equipment status since the end of WWII.

Thanks for your answer Andy!

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old September 23rd, 2019, 08:02 PM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 2,976
Thanks: 68
Thanked 421 Times in 336 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Artillery settings

With mines you can sell them a dummy admittedly that scenario no engineers but it does not matter your force is mobile & my tanks had ample smoke. Hit the mines & either let engineers work a couple of turns smoke & pull out. Probe the line to see how far it goes worst case I have no issues with advancing in the wrong direction for a turn or two when it comes to mines.

SPOILER
In this case not far you can go round it while the arty hits the now vacated minefield.

In my view the artillery system works well I do fall foul of overload on the occasion in early year games but not worried by it. D/S G/S are useful additional tools these are the ones you have covering your mines if defending with any Gold Spots positioned to relocate & hit again. Due to high adjust cost stick to infantry as targets not harassing vehicles.
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Imp For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.