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  #821  
Old December 11th, 2018, 04:34 AM

jivemi jivemi is offline
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Default Re: MBT's

OK, after 3 meeting engagements in mostly level, lightly wooded terrain (random each time) on a 110X120 map with 41 visibility here are the results:

Test one: Russian first player, 13 T-72B3/B4s vs 12 Oplot-Ms (sorry that's even but Oplots are more expensive): each side lost 9 tanks. Draw.

Test two: Ukrainians first player, 13 Oplots vs 13 T-72s, 3 Oplots lost to all 13 T-72s, Ukrainian marginal win.

Test three: Russia first, 13 T-72s to 13 Oplots, honors even again as both sides lost 11 tanks.

Russian crews have perhaps a 10-point experience advantage although they still seemed to miss fairly often. Envars had a couple kills while the Kombats had none. Last battle an Oplot platoon was on higher elevation but hull down didn't help, maybe 'cuz only 2 tanks had LOS through a tree line at any one time to the Russians' 3 or 4.

Dunno if this proves anything but it was fun to watch the AI slug it out with heavy armor. Cheers!
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  #822  
Old December 11th, 2018, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

So I had some time and ran a quick test with these parameters:



And the ending result (I as the Russians) vs AI Marginal Victory:



As you can see I lost 5 tanks to 12. It was pretty tough but over by turns 5-7.
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  #823  
Old December 11th, 2018, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

Oh for the Ukrainians I purchased a tank company:
T-84 Oplot-M (x13)

and for the Russians a tank company:
T-72/3M/B4 (x13)
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  #824  
Old December 11th, 2018, 03:45 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

jivemi,
First Thank you for your time as well!!

Well that was interesting! And I have to add, unexpected. So I draw the following conclusions from this test...

1) It still would seem to support the refs submitted that the ERA for the OPLOT-M must be revised which, I believe Don does as well to at least parody to the Russian T-90A as noted in my last evaluation.

2) The overall results though, 2 Draws & 1 Marginal Victory tank on tank does really surprise me.

3) The above "2)" needed to stand alone. The AI as be set to "Tank Heavy" will generally have more tanks overall and sometimes even at the start. Not to give away too much in case I ever play a PEMB, I always start from a "combined arms" minus air support in the beginning.

To get to 1:1 or 2:1 kill ratios using these tanks I don't think I ever achieved that with these tanks fighting against each other, certainly not early in my long campaigns. I have had early battle draws rarely, won many marginal victories and an occasional decisive victory's.

I think how I'm getting these is though my tanks are getting beaten up or worse, they must be doing just enough damage to where my APC's and Infantry have just enough in them to start taking them out later in the battles, not all of them mind you, but for long enough and with loss of other units, that the "Battle Clock" runs out of time on the Russians.

This says a lot for the "Combined Arms" way of thinking and planning. But it also speaks to the fact, that as I posted, I need to "husband" these tanks a little more and change my tactics as I already noted. They need to "live to see another day" in my way of playing.

As a note I have found playing these two countries in the present day very challenging based on what the UKRAINE has to work with. You might also find the same, if not, then I'm really "hosed up"!?!

So this was useful.

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; December 11th, 2018 at 04:16 PM..
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  #825  
Old December 11th, 2018, 04:08 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

ASL,
Thank you also! I think my last evaluation posts are still relevant, however...

1) WELCOME TO MY WORLD!! That's more along the lines I'm seeing things. That's almost a 2.5:1 kill ratio in favor of the Russians. That sounds about right to me.

2) Maybe I'm not that "hosed up" after all!?! Time will tell.

Now I have to get ready for work it's gonna be cold out there tonight!!

Regards,
Pat
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  #826  
Old December 11th, 2018, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

No worries, you can call me ASL, but it's really zovs66 or Don

ASL = Advanced Squad Leader
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  #827  
Old December 11th, 2018, 06:14 PM

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Default Re: MBT's

M41C delivered to Uruguay in 7 Dec 2018.
Article with vídeo
http://www.defesanet.com.br/leo/noti...cito-Uruguaio/
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  #828  
Old December 12th, 2018, 05:08 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Don,
Thank You for correcting me! ASL Advanced Squad Leader, well imagine that!?!

This would be a good time to be "Going Deep, Deep, Deep."

Got off early/going to bed earlier!!

RC4,
Thanks for the follow-up! I believe the 01/2019 Start Date will hold up well as submitted, based on your information! I like it when people follow up on something!!

Regards,
Pat
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  #829  
Old Today, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

OK, the first of several tests:

Test#1. Human controlled Russian tank company of T72BM3/4s vs. AI controlled Ukrainian tank company of T-84 Oplot-Ms. Both companies have 13 tanks in total. Terrain is normally random generated terrain 80*60 hexes in size. Meeting engagement. 5 engagements total.

Results:

Russian casualties Ukrainian casualties result
3 9 MV
1 7 DV
3 9 MV
1 8 MV
2 9 MV

Average:
2 8.4

Comments: The tanks are quite evenly matched. Below 800 meters, destruction is highly likely even with frontal hits. Skill is the most important factor, since I can use terrain to conduct ambushes and AI just moves forward.
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