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  #71  
Old November 28th, 2018, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

No problem. This is minor stuff compared to some for the WW2 game.

The units in the Israeli OOB that use the "Heavy APC" unitclass now......


Units of class 120 Heavy APC

070 - Kasman - Available 01/092 to 12/125
420 - Nagmachon - Available 01/104 to 12/125
421 - Nagmachon - Available 01/082 to 12/103
422 - Puma - Available 01/091 to 12/125
423 - Nakpadon - Available 01/094 to 12/125

are "orphans" not used by any higher formation involving infantry and only show up as "3 Hvy APCs" under Misc. when a player needs "3 Hvy APCs" for their infantry. ( which probably means they are rarely used ) as they seem to be more "security" APC's as opposed to combat APC's like the Achzarit and Namer and therefore more of a "scenario" unit
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  #72  
Old November 28th, 2018, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

You are correct indeed. With the exeption of the Puma which was (I think still is in some units) the main APC for combat engineers. All the others were sed in outposts and not in maneuver elements.

BTW there is actually an entirely new command APC missing from the OOB I will get the details tomorrow.
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  #73  
Old November 28th, 2018, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingertanker View Post
You are correct indeed. With the exeption of the Puma which was (I think still is in some units) the main APC for combat engineers. All the others were sed in outposts and not in maneuver elements.

BTW there is actually an entirely new command APC missing from the OOB I will get the details tomorrow.
OK but the Puma is still in the engineering formations but only with dozer blade or Roller on the front. The one in the Heavy APC formation represents the ones that are not used by engineering units

I noticed the Nakpadon did not have it's own Icon

it does now
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  #74  
Old November 28th, 2018, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

I came very close to stealing one of those once to tow my tank but luckily even 20 years old me was not stupid enough.
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  #75  
Old November 29th, 2018, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Unit 086 Achzarit. As far as I know and Hebrew wikipedia supports me on this, the vehicles were put into actual service in 1988. At the least they were produced that year and entered service 1989. In addition there are actually two marks of the Achzarit, and several rounds of improvements in between...
The Mk 2 has a stronger engine and other internal improvements. Some also have a protected commanders "aquarium" and remote weapon system with 0.5 M2HB. The Mk 2 started production in 2010 and AFAIK all Achzarit were to be upgraded. That said in 2014 I still saw operational Mk 1 during my service in the war. For simplicity I suggest splitting to two units:
Unit 086 Achzarit: change start date 1/1989
Create a new unit named Achzarit Mk 2, it should be based on 086 but have: higher speed (maybe 15?), weapon slot 1 changed to weapon 055 M2HB AAMG. Vision,Fire control, LRF and stabilizer identical to unit 087 as it uses the same "Katlanit" RWS. Icon could probably do with a slight change to reflect the different look. Start date 1/2011 end date 2025.

Pictures for reference:






Also there possibly is an issue of the vision stats for the Namer which I have just noticed. AFAIK the night sight clearly visible in the images is a Thermal Imaging sight. Vision for the Namer units and any others with the Katlanit should reflect this...
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  #76  
Old November 29th, 2018, 05:13 AM
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Confused Re: IDF OOB project.

The photos didn't appear but I started looking around on the net and ? perhaps ? the photo we are using now for unit 97 Namer MICV RWS is, in fact, an Achzarit Mk2 ?

........ and could it be that this...



is the Namer MICV with the 30mm cannon ? ( which it appears is not actually in service...yet ? )
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  #77  
Old November 29th, 2018, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

I believe the photo for 097 is an Achzarit with an auto cannon in a large variant of the Katlanit. The Achzarit 2 does not have an auto cannon. But yes, it is for sure an Achzarit and not a Namer, it's probably a test vehicle or prototype that never went anywhere.

The turreted Namer you linked a photo of is indeed the latest (in a confusing series) of turreted Namer variants. However this one seems to be very close to going into service. It is being displayed again and again. I believe it's in operational trials.

You can see here on display in IDF officer course ceremony:
MLRS Menatetz
PUMA with the new Drakonit 12.7mm RWS (similar to Katlanit, and **** now we have to deal with that...We will get to it)
Eitan with I think a Katlanit 12.7mm
Merkava Mk 4M
Namer with 30mm unmanned turret
Ofek heavy command vehicle (which we will need to deal with down the line)

https://2018-uploaded.fresh.co.il/20...1/98121629.jpg
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  #78  
Old November 29th, 2018, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Lets try those Achzarit Mk.2 photos again:
https://imgur.com/a/yqYX5Hn
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  #79  
Old November 29th, 2018, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: IDF OOB project.

Units 087, 088 and 096 I would suggest vision upgraded to 40 to reflect the TI of the Katlanit RWS.

Unit 097 should have a new icon, to reflect the image you shared. I can send you further images if needed. Vision should probably be 50 like the Merkava Mk 4M. I would remove the SPIKE which is not in the images we currently have.
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  #80  
Old November 29th, 2018, 07:48 AM
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Fallout Re: IDF OOB project.

Amit,
Just got home from a lovely cold 12+ shift, and I see you haven't wasted anytime! So I was saving this until I could start "knocking out" the APC Thread issues, but no time like the present...
Israel UNIT 071 EITAN showing fully operational/accepted status entry date as 01/2018, but I came across the following ref that indicates it didn't go into operational testing and evaluation until April this year and now I quote the article dated May 22nd 2018...
"Last April, drivers from the 50th Battalion underwent intensive training with the APC. They spent a week in operational driving conditions and brought the Eitan to a battalion-wide training exercise.


So two things pop into my mind, it's not been fully accepted into the IDF and by definition, not in full production pending acceptance into the IDF.

I have not seen anything from reliable sources that the IDF to this point has accepted it. I know the IDF can move fast once this has been done. My guess is they are on the "cusp" to do so. Based on this my thinking is 06/2019 or 10/2019 would be a better date(s).
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2...nse_force.html

Your thoughts please.

Since this is a date issue as well UK AJAX UNIT 602 is in the same situation with entry date 06/2017. My ref. dated 15 JUN 2018 is indicating it's still in OP EVAL status with units not reaching the field until "...early 2019...", so my thinking having more info on the AJAX is that 06/2019 might be a better entry date.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...ntracts-01130/

As some know, I've been posting on all things FRES since it started. That being said and having used it in my long campaigns (17-29 battles), I have to say the AJAX as in the game plays as I would expect it to perform in the "real world" based on all the data I've been able to collect on it over the years. WELL DONE Don!!

Well I need to "hit the rack" so I can have more such fun later to day into tomorrow morning, as I just experienced!?

Have a good day everyone!!

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; November 29th, 2018 at 07:57 AM..
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