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  #21  
Old September 19th, 2004, 02:20 PM

Zen Zen is offline
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

PvK,

Yes, those are all good suggestions. However, when you give them additional equipment (like say a Robe of the Magi), it doesn't transfer over the actual applies bonuses of the magic item (+Paths, or Resistance, or whatever), only the physical statistics and such.

I could give someone a wraith sword as starting equipment and it wouldn't make a big deal, but giving someone say, a Rune Smasher, would not give them a penetration bonus, or Elemental Armor would not provide any resistances.

This is where you run into the limitations of the Modding tools at current.
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  #22  
Old September 19th, 2004, 02:33 PM
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

see? everyone thinks the skratti should just be given a wraith sword...

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  #23  
Old September 19th, 2004, 05:43 PM

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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

The newest Version has been updated to 1.3

It has a few changes, from the original which are as follows:

Weapon: Plague Breath +1 Ammo

Dracolich +Recuperation, +Wing Buffet, +4 Prec, +5 Prot
Virtue +Astral, -Air
Skratti -> Elder Skratti +1 Att, +3 Def, +Blood, -1 Enc
Bog Mummy -> +25 FR

Please note, the Original Post Attatchment has been changed and updated to Version 1.3. If you have a hard time downloading it from techno, try the attatchment.
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  #24  
Old September 20th, 2004, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

Zen, looks like you forgot to mark the Basecost for Naga and Golden Naga as changed in the readme, it's down to 90 from 100.

The Caelian Arch Seraph has also not been edited at all, so (other than flying + CR) it's currently far inferior to a lot of the other rainbow pretenders. Something sneezes too hard in its direction and it's toast.

If you (or anyone else) are interested in seeing it, I made some changes into the conceptReadme file (edited file attached). I edited out a couple of spelling mistakes and organized the changes on each pretender into a systematic order, the order of listing varied quite a bit.

I also organized the pretenders by type to the following categories: Monster, Giant, Immobile, Human (rainbow), and added an Unedited Category where the pretenders with no changes are listed. Makes it a bit easier to find what you want if you're looking for a specific pretender's changes.

There are a few pretenders that didn't really fit squarely into any one of the categories, and they are: Virtue, PoD, Medusa (listed under monsters), and Ghost King, the 3 Lich types and Bog Mummy (listed under humans despite being death specific).

Now, I might be ignorant of the finer points of balance issues, especially where multislayer games are concerned, but as of right now, your mod is getting permanent enabling on my Dom2, it makes so many previously useless pretenders attractive and even makes some of them more thematic. Great job!

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Attached Files
File Type: txt 296581-conceptReadMeEdited.txt (3.9 KB, 143 views)
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  #25  
Old September 20th, 2004, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

I really like these changes. I wish they could find their way into a patch.

There is something that puzzles me, though. Three of the pretenders got a
nerf. I am not going to argue against the logic of it, I will just take it as
a compliment for my taste in pretenders, as the only time I do not use the Ghost
King is when I use the Allfather.

But I wonder, how do people use the Prince of Death effectively? As early
as the middle game you have to stick him in the lab, because undead-specific
spells like Dust to Dust easily destroy him. This is not a big deal for the
Ghost king, because deep down under, he is a rainbow mage. But with the
increased path cost, the Prince of Death looks rather pointless to me.
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  #26  
Old September 20th, 2004, 02:43 PM

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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

PoD is a very good choice as pretender IMO, before the Patch.

Good stats, flying, with massive fear for taking out indies.
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  #27  
Old September 20th, 2004, 02:55 PM

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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

Quote:
Tuidjy said:
I really like these changes. I wish they could find their way into a patch.

I like the changes, as well. But of course they'll need a good bit of playtesting (to which effort, I would be more than happy to contribute!) before it'd be reasonable to include in a patch. I'd bet IW would be quite open to incorporate these in a patch, after an appropriate level of testing.
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  #28  
Old September 20th, 2004, 02:58 PM

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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

The best way would be to play MP games with them, not only SP games.
The problem is that I dunno if a server like Mosehansen's one could implement Mod usage. Even by default it could be pretty nice to have some new game started with that Mod.

I'd like it really, but Skratti and G.Warlock needs some more HP now that humans are close to them for HPs.
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  #29  
Old September 20th, 2004, 04:49 PM

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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

Looks good Zen, thanks for the work!

I like the HP bonuses on the human pretenders. To me, it says that you will no longer be forced to take death magic if you choose them (for Twiceborn). It still makes a lot of sense to do so, of course. But you arent really *forced* to do so, anymore.
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  #30  
Old September 20th, 2004, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

Twiceborn works on pretenders?
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