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Old March 17th, 2005, 11:01 PM
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Default Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

I ripped data on the game's recruitable mages from Edi's database, and applied a blanket 20% cost increase to them, in an effort to deemphasize mages. Good idea, or misguided - I don't really know, but currently mage power per unit gold is vastly higher than that of any other unit you can purchase, and good players seem to spend the bulk of their recruiting money on mages. At least, that's my perception.

However, this blanket increase is not really perfect, since some mages were too expensive before, and some will still be too cheap. So, I'm requesting comments.

In base Dominions II:

1) Which mages are too expensive for their power?
2) Which mages are too cheap for their power?
3) Are there any mages you ALWAYS or NEVER build when you have the capability?
4) Do any nations strongly need a type of mage, a certain path, or a certain level in a path? For example, base Vanheim has no real blood hunting ability, and base TC or BF Ulm cannot use their national spells.
5) Any other suggested changes to the games mages?

Thanks for your comments. The next post is a list of mages that the mod will adjust, including their original price and (preliminary) modded price, abilities, paths, holiness, precision, and encumbrance (not spell casting encumbrance). Please use it for reference


Edit: made some grammar corrections.
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Old March 17th, 2005, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

#modname "Cherry Recruitable Mage Rebalance"
#description "Increases costs of recruitable mages, generally by 20%. Some mages were increased by slightly more (e.g. Caelian mages and researchers) and some by less or not at all (e.g. Carrion Woods mages, indy Knight-Mages, and Alchemists). The purpose is to make mage costs closer to their value, and nothing was changed at all other than gold costs. Thanks to Edi for compiling the data in Excel - this data was ripped directly from his file."
#icon "./cherrydata/cherrymod.tga"
#version 0.9
#domversion 2.15



Code:


-- Mages are listed by nation, alphebetically.
-- Independants are sorted by ID#



-- Nation: Abysia
-- Paths: F2, H3
-- Original Price: 200g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 7
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: h, rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 85
#name "Anathemant Salamander"
#gcost 240
#end


-- Nation: Abysia
-- Paths: F3, H4
-- Original Price: 360g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 8
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: h, rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 86
#name "Anathemant Dragon"
#gcost 430
#end


-- Nation: Abysia
-- Paths: S2, B3, ?
-- Original Price: 270g
-- Prec: 7
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: h, rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 89
#name "Warlock"
#gcost 325
#end


-- Nation: Abysia
-- Paths: S, B2
-- Original Price: 150g
-- Prec: 8
-- Enc: 8
-- Abilities: h, rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 923
#name "Warlock Apprentice"
#gcost 170
#end


-- Nation: Abysia BoH
-- Paths: F, H2
-- Original Price: 90g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 8
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 991
#name "Newt"
#gcost 90
#end


-- Nation: Abysia BoH
-- Paths: B, H2
-- Original Price: 100g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 8
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 1091
#name "Sanguine Acolyte"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: Abysia BoH
-- Paths: F, B2, H3
-- Original Price: 220g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 7
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: h, rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 1092
#name "Sanguine Anathemant"
#gcost 260
#end


-- Nation: Abysia std
-- Paths: F2, B2, H3
-- Original Price: 260g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 7
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: fly, h, rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 87
#name "Demonbred"
#gcost 310
#end


-- Nation: Arcoscephale
-- Paths: N, H3
-- Original Price: 110g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: heal
#selectmonster 242
#name "Priestess"
#gcost 135
#end


-- Nation: Arcoscephale
-- Paths: S2, ###
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 311
#name "Mystic"
#gcost 220
#end


-- Nation: Arcoscephale std
-- Paths: S3, ?
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 301
#name "Astrologer"
#gcost 220
#end


-- Nation: Atlantis
-- Paths: W
-- Original Price: 60g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: amph
#selectmonster 102
#name "Initiate of the Deep"
#gcost 70
#end


-- Nation: Atlantis
-- Paths: W2, S3
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: amph
#selectmonster 104
#name "Deep Seer"
#gcost 220
#end


-- Nation: Atlantis
-- Paths: W3, 2?
-- Original Price: 290g
-- Prec: 8
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: amph
#selectmonster 322
#name "King of the Deep"
#gcost 350
#end


-- Nation: Atlantis (Oceania)
-- Paths: W2, N3, ?
-- Original Price: 350g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: amph, fly, rec
#selectmonster 1038
#name "Capricorn"
#gcost 420
#end


-- Nation: Atlantis (Oceania)
-- Paths: W, N2, ?
-- Original Price: 350g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: amphP, rec
#selectmonster 1039
#name "Capricorn"
#gcost 420
#end


-- Nation: Atlantis (Oceania)
-- Paths: W2
-- Original Price: 160g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: amph, awe(+2), fly, rec, st(0)
#selectmonster 1054
#name "Siren"
#gcost 190
#end


-- Nation: Atlantis (Oceania)
-- Paths: A, W
-- Original Price: 160g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: amphP, awe(+2), fly, rec, st(0)
#selectmonster 1055
#name "Siren"
#gcost 190
#end


-- Nation: Atlantis (Oceania)
-- Paths: W3
-- Original Price: 200g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: aq, fly
#selectmonster 1088
#name "Triton King"
#gcost 240
#end


-- Nation: Caelum RotR
-- Paths: ED
-- Original Price: 90g
-- Prec: 13
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: fly, f(-4)
#selectmonster 951
#name "Harab Seraph"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: Caelum RotR
-- Paths: A3, E, D2, H2
-- Original Price: 270g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: fly, f(-3)
#selectmonster 1003
#name "Harab Elder"
#gcost 325
#end


-- Nation: Caelum RotR
-- Paths: A2, W
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: fly, rC(100)
#selectmonster 1004
#name "Seraph"
#gcost 170
#end


-- Nation: Caelum std
-- Paths: A2, W
-- Original Price: 100g
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: fly, rC(100)
#selectmonster 202
#name "Seraph"
#gcost 125
#end


-- Nation: Caelum std
-- Paths: A3, W2, ?
-- Original Price: 175g
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: fly, rC(100)
#selectmonster 203
#name "High Seraph"
#gcost 225
#end


-- Nation: C'tis
-- Paths: D, N
-- Original Price: 110g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: cb, f(-4), rP(100), st(+5) surv(s)
#selectmonster 502
#name "Empoisoner"
#gcost 135
#end


-- Nation: C'tis DT
-- Paths: F, D3, ?
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: cb, f(-2), rP(50), surv(s)
#selectmonster 1036
#name "Sauromancer"
#gcost 220
#end


-- Nation: C'tis DT
-- Paths: F, D, H2
-- Original Price: 110g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: cb, f(-4), rP(50), surv(sw)
#selectmonster 1095
#name "Keeper of the Tombs"
#gcost 135
#end


-- Nation: C'tis M
-- Paths: W, D2, N2, ?
-- Original Price: 220g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: cb, f(-3), rP(75), surv(s)
#selectmonster 937
#name "Marshmaster"
#gcost 265
#end


-- Nation: C'tis std
-- Paths: D3, N, ?
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: cb, f(-2), rP(50), surv(s)
#selectmonster 161
#name "Sauromancer"
#gcost 220
#end


-- Nation: C'tis std & M
-- Paths: S, N
-- Original Price: 110g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: cb, rP(50), surv(s)
#selectmonster 170
#name "Shaman"
#gcost 130
#end


-- Nation: Ermor B
-- Paths: S, D, U2
-- Original Price: 130g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: f(-4)
#selectmonster 669
#name "Thaumaturg"
#gcost 140
#end


-- Nation: Ermor B
-- Paths: S2, D2, U3, ?
-- Original Price: 340g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 8
-- Abilities: f(0)
#selectmonster 670
#name "Grand Thaumaturg"
#gcost 360
#end


-- Nation: Jotunheim
-- Paths: W2, B2, ?
-- Original Price: 250g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: rC(100)
#selectmonster 553
#name "Jotun Skratti"
#gcost 280
#end


-- Nation: Jotunheim IW
-- Paths: $
-- Original Price: 55g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 913
#name "Vaetti Hag"
#gcost 65
#end


-- Nation: Jotunheim IW & N
-- Paths: D, N, B, $$
-- Original Price: 250g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: f(-4), rC(100), surv(f)
#selectmonster 785
#name "Gygja"
#gcost 280
#end


-- Nation: Jotunheim N
-- Paths: W3, D2, H3
-- Original Price: 500g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: c, f(-3), rC(100), sF(50)
#selectmonster 844
#name "Niefel Jarl"
#gcost 550
#end


-- Nation: Jotunheim U
-- Paths: S, D, N
-- Original Price: 90g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: f(-4)
#selectmonster 280
#name "Seithkona"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: Jotunheim U
-- Paths: S2, D2, N
-- Original Price: 220g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: f(-3)
#selectmonster 281
#name "Norna"
#gcost 260
#end


-- Nation: Machaka
-- Paths: F, E, D
-- Original Price: 110g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 2
-- Abilities: f(-4), surv(f)
#selectmonster 891
#name "Sorceress"
#gcost 125
#end


-- Nation: Machaka
-- Paths: F, D, N
-- Original Price: 80g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 2
-- Abilities: f(-4), surv(f), rb(-2)
#selectmonster 892
#name "Witch Doctor"
#gcost 100
#end


-- Nation: Machaka
-- Paths: F, D, N2, ?
-- Original Price: 190g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 2
-- Abilities: f(-4), surv(f)
#selectmonster 893
#name "Sorcerer"
#gcost 230
#end


-- Nation: Machaka
-- Paths: F2, E2, D, ?
-- Original Price: 250g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 2
-- Abilities: f(-4), surv(f)
#selectmonster 894
#name "Black Sorcerer"
#gcost 280
#end


-- Nation: Machaka
-- Paths: F2, E2, D, ?
-- Original Price: 0g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 5
-- Enc: 2
-- Abilities: a, f(-4), rP(100), surv(f)
-- selectmonster 899
-- name "Hunter Spider"
-- end


-- Nation: Man
-- Paths: N
-- Original Price: 75g
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: st(+30), std(+10), surv(f)
#selectmonster 658
#name "Bard"
#gcost 85
#end


-- Nation: Man LotT
-- Paths: A2, N, H3
-- Original Price: 280g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 16
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: gl, st(+25), surv(f)
#selectmonster 848
#name "Sidhe Lord"
#gcost 325
#end


-- Nation: Man LotT
-- Paths: A, N, H2
-- Original Price: 140g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: gl, st(+25), surv(f)
#selectmonster 850
#name "Sidhe Champion"
#gcost 170
#end


-- Nation: Man LotT
-- Paths: A3, N2, H3, ?
-- Original Price: 390g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 17
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: gl, rec, st(+25), surv(f)
#selectmonster 856
#name "Tuatha"
#gcost 460
#end


-- Nation: Man std
-- Paths: N2
-- Original Price: 80g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: surv(f)
#selectmonster 151
#name "Daughter of Avalon"
#gcost 95
#end


-- Nation: Man std
-- Paths: A, N2
-- Original Price: 130g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 152
#name "Mother of Avalon"
#gcost 155
#end


-- Nation: Man std
-- Paths: A2, N3, ?
-- Original Price: 230g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 153
#name "Crone of Avalon"
#gcost 275
#end


-- Nation: Marignon
-- Paths: F, H3
-- Original Price: 110g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: inq
#selectmonster 149
#name "Inquisitor"
#gcost 130
#end


-- Nation: Marignon
-- Paths: F, H4
-- Original Price: 210g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: inq
#selectmonster 222
#name "High Inquisitor"
#gcost 250
#end


-- Nation: Marignon CotS
-- Paths: A, S
-- Original Price: 90g
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: sail
#selectmonster 1031
#name "Chartmaker"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: Marignon CotS
-- Paths: A2, S2, ?
-- Original Price: 200g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: sail
#selectmonster 1032
#name "Royal Navigator"
#gcost 240
#end


-- Nation: Marignon DF
-- Paths: F, B
-- Original Price: 80g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 744
#name "Diabolist"
#gcost 95
#end


-- Nation: Marignon DF
-- Paths: F2, B2, H2
-- Original Price: 190g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 745
#name "Goetic Master"
#gcost 230
#end


-- Nation: Marignon std
-- Paths: F3, S2, H3, ?
-- Original Price: 270g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 223
#name "Grand Master"
#gcost 325
#end


-- Nation: Marignon std
-- Paths: F2, S, H2
-- Original Price: 150g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 224
#name "Witch Hunter"
#gcost 180
#end


-- Nation: Marignon std & DF
-- Paths: F
-- Original Price: 65g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 225
#name "Initiate"
#gcost 80
#end


-- Nation: Mictlan
-- Paths: B, H2
-- Original Price: 80g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 731
#name "Mictlan Priest"
#gcost 95
#end


-- Nation: Mictlan
-- Paths: N2, B2, H3
-- Original Price: 250g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: surv(f)
#selectmonster 732
#name "Priest King"
#gcost 300
#end


-- Nation: Mictlan
-- Paths: W2, B2, H3
-- Original Price: 230g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 733
#name "Rain Priest"
#gcost 275
#end


-- Nation: Mictlan
-- Paths: S2, B2, H3
-- Original Price: 230g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 734
#name "Moon Priest"
#gcost 275
#end


-- Nation: Mictlan
-- Paths: F2, B3, H4
-- Original Price: 390g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 735
#name "High Priest of the Sun"
#gcost 450
#end


-- Nation: Pangaea CW
-- Paths: D2, N3
-- Original Price: 320g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: f(-3), rec, st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 709
#name "Panic Apostate"
#gcost 320
#end


-- Nation: Pangaea CW
-- Paths: N, H2
-- Original Price: 90g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: rec, st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 901
#name "Black Dryad"
#gcost 90
#end


-- Nation: Pangaea NE
-- Paths: N, H2
-- Original Price: 110g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: awe(+2), rec, st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 705
#name "Dryad"
#gcost 130
#end


-- Nation: Pangaea NE
-- Paths: E2, N3
-- Original Price: 350g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: rec, st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 706
#name "Pan"
#gcost 420
#end


-- Nation: Pangaea std
-- Paths: N, H3
-- Original Price: 110g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: awe(+2), rec, st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 237
#name "Dryad"
#gcost 130
#end


-- Nation: Pangaea std
-- Paths: E2, N3, ?
-- Original Price: 350g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: rec, st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 238
#name "Pan"
#gcost 400
#end


-- Nation: Pangaea std
-- Paths: N3, B2
-- Original Price: 320g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: rec, st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 516
#name "Pandemoniac"
#gcost 360
#end


-- Nation: Pythium SC
-- Paths: W, N2, H3, ?
-- Original Price: 190g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: rP(100)
#selectmonster 761
#name "Serpent Priest"
#gcost 230
#end


-- Nation: Pythium SC
-- Paths: N, H2
-- Original Price: 80g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: rP(50)
#selectmonster 830
#name "Serpent Acolyte"
#gcost 95
#end


-- Nation: Pythium std
-- Paths: A2, W, S3, H4, ?
-- Original Price: 380g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 8
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 41
#name "Arch Theurg"
#gcost 465
#end


-- Nation: Pythium std
-- Paths: A, W, S2, H3
-- Original Price: 150g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 42
#name "Theurg"
#gcost 200
#end


-- Nation: Pythium std
-- Paths: S, H2
-- Original Price: 90g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 8
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 43
#name "Theurg Acolyte"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: R'lyeh
-- Paths: W, S3, ??
-- Original Price: 280g
-- Prec: 13
-- Enc: 2
-- Abilities: amph, mb
#selectmonster 332
#name "Starspawn"
#gcost 335
#end


-- Nation: R'lyeh
-- Paths: S, H3, ?
-- Original Price: 150g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 2
-- Abilities: amph, mb
#selectmonster 333
#name "Starspawn"
#gcost 180
#end


-- Nation: R'lyeh
-- Paths: S
-- Original Price: 85g
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: amph, as, st(+5)
#selectmonster 443
#name "Star Child"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: T'ien Chi
-- Paths: W?, H2
-- Original Price: 100g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 808
#name "Master of the Way"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: T'ien Chi BK, S&A
-- Paths: D, H2
-- Original Price: 75g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 806
#name "Master of the Dead"
#gcost 85
#end


-- Nation: T'ien Chi S&A
-- Paths: FAEWN#, H2
-- Original Price: 190g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 940
#name "Master of the Five Elements"
#gcost 200
#end


-- Nation: T'ien Chi S&A
-- Paths: FAWS, H3, #$
-- Original Price: 250g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: fly
#selectmonster 941
#name "Celestial Master"
#gcost 260
#end


-- Nation: T'ien Chi std & BK
-- Paths: F, A, W2, S, H3, ?
-- Original Price: 250g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 803
#name "Celestial Master"
#gcost 260
#end


-- Nation: Ulm BF
-- Paths: S, $
-- Original Price: 90g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 1011
#name "Fortune Teller"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: Ulm BF
-- Paths: S2, B
-- Original Price: 160g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: st(+30)
#selectmonster 1012
#name "Member of the Second Tier"
#gcost 170
#end


-- Nation: Ulm BF
-- Paths: S
-- Original Price: 80g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: std(+20)
#selectmonster 1023
#name "Illuminated One"
#gcost 70
#end


-- Nation: Ulm IF
-- Paths: E, H3, ?
-- Original Price: 140g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: frg(25), inq
#selectmonster 740
#name "Black Priest"
#gcost 140
#end


-- Nation: Ulm std
-- Paths: F, E2
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: frg(25)
#selectmonster 325
#name "Master Smith"
#gcost 150
#end


-- Nation: Vanheim
-- Paths: A, H2
-- Original Price: 160g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: gl, st(+25), sail
#selectmonster 263
#name "Vanherse"
#gcost 175
#end


-- Nation: Vanheim
-- Paths: A2, B, H3
-- Original Price: 280g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 16
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: gl, st(+25), sail
#selectmonster 264
#name "Vanjarl"
#gcost 310
#end


-- Nation: Vanheim H
-- Paths: A2, D3, H3, ?
-- Original Price: 400g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 16
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: f(-2), gl, st(+25), sail
#selectmonster 847
#name "Hangadrott"
#gcost 450
#end


-- Nation: Vanheim H
-- Paths: E2, D2
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: f(-3), surv(m)
#selectmonster 1010
#name "Svartalf"
#gcost 200
#end


-- Nation: Vanheim M
-- Paths: A2, ??
-- Original Price: 160g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: r(1), surv(f)
#selectmonster 846
#name "Galderman"
#gcost 200
#end


-- Nation: Vanheim M
-- Paths: S2
-- Original Price: 120g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 950
#name "Volva"
#gcost 140
#end


-- Nation: Vanheim std
-- Paths: E3, ?
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: surv(m)
#selectmonster 323
#name "Dwarven Smith"
#gcost 220
#end


-- Nation: Vanheim std
-- Paths: A3, B, H3, ?
-- Original Price: 380g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 17
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: gl, st(+25), sail
#selectmonster 948
#name "Vanadrott"
#gcost 440
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: N2, H2
-- Original Price: 140g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: st(+0), surv(f)
#selectmonster 105
#name "Druid"
#gcost 165
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: D2
-- Original Price: 120g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: fly, f(-3)
#selectmonster 252
#name "Harab Seraph"
#gcost 140
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: A, S2
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 346
#name "Crystal Sorceress"
#gcost 160
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: A, S, H2
-- Original Price: 100g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 347
#name "Crystal Priestess"
#gcost 120
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: F, B2
-- Original Price: 150g
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 349
#name "Garnet Sorceress"
#gcost 180
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: F, B, H2
-- Original Price: 100g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: rF(100), surv(w)
#selectmonster 350
#name "Garnet Priestess"
#gcost 120
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: W, N2, ??
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: rP(100), surv(f)
#selectmonster 352
#name "Jade Sorceress"
#gcost 220
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths:
-- Original Price: 100g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: rP(100), surv(f)
#selectmonster 353
#name "Jade Priestess"
#gcost 120
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: E, D2
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: f(-3), surv(m)
#selectmonster 355
#name "Onyx Sorceress"
#gcost 160
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: ED, H3
-- Original Price: 130g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: f(-4), surv(m)
#selectmonster 356
#name "Onyx Priestess"
#gcost 150
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: E3
-- Original Price: 150g
-- Prec: 8
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: r(7), sF(25), surv(m), !e, gem(+1E)
#selectmonster 519
#name "Troll King"
#gcost 150
#end


-- Nation: Indy
-- Paths: A2, H2
-- Original Price: 160g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 16
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 1002
#name "Asmeg Jarl"
#gcost 190
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: D, B
-- Original Price: 60g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: f(-4)
#selectmonster 94
#name "Conjurer"
#gcost 85
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: 2D, 2B
-- Original Price: 100g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: f(-3)
#selectmonster 95
#name "Circle Master"
#gcost 140
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: W
-- Original Price: 60g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: grants water breathing
#selectmonster 96
#name "Azure Initiate"
#gcost 70
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: W2
-- Original Price: 100g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: grants water breathing
#selectmonster 97
#name "Azure Mage"
#gcost 120
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: F
-- Original Price: 60g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 98
#name "Pyromancer"
#gcost 70
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: F3
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 99
#name "Adept of Pyriphlegeton"
#gcost 215
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: A2, S2, ?
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: rb(4)
#selectmonster 100
#name "Adept of the Silver Order"
#gcost 235
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: F2, S2, ?
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: rb(4)
#selectmonster 101
#name "Adept of the Golden Order"
#gcost 235
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: W3
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: amph
#selectmonster 103
#name "Hydromancer"
#gcost 215
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: S3
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: e, st(+0)
#selectmonster 106
#name "Shadow Seer"
#gcost 215
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: N, B2
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: surv(f)
#selectmonster 122
#name "Bloodhenge Druid"
#gcost 165
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: EN
-- Original Price: 100g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: surv(f)
#selectmonster 154
#name "Witch"
#gcost 120
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: #, $2
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: rb(7)
#selectmonster 302
#name "Wizard"
#gcost 180
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: W2, H2
-- Original Price: 180g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: rC(100)
#selectmonster 309
#name "Ice Druid"
#gcost 200
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: D2
-- Original Price: 120g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: f(-3)
#selectmonster 310
#name "Necromancer"
#gcost 130
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: #2, $
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 13
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: rb(7)
#selectmonster 312
#name "Wizard"
#gcost 180
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: S, N2
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 338
#name "Enchanter"
#gcost 160
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: D, B, 2$
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: f(-4)
#selectmonster 339
#name "Sorcerer"
#gcost 210
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: E2, S2
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 340
#name "Crystal Mage"
#gcost 210
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: A2
-- Original Price: 110g
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: gl, st(+25)
#selectmonster 341
#name "Illusionist"
#gcost 130
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: S2, D
-- Original Price: 140g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 342
#name "Moon Mage"
#gcost 170
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: A2, S2, $
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 14
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 343
#name "Sorceress"
#gcost 215
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: F, E, S2, ?
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 344
#name "Sorceress"
#gcost 215
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: E2, N2
-- Original Price: 175g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 3
-- Abilities: gl, st(+25), surv(f)
#selectmonster 345
#name "Gnome"
#gcost 200
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: N2, ##
-- Original Price: 200g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 363
#name "Enchantress"
#gcost 240
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: N, ###
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 364
#name "Enchantress"
#gcost 215
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: F2
-- Original Price: 200g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 389
#name "Fire Lord"
#gcost 150
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: E2, S2, ?
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: rb(4)
#selectmonster 477
#name "Adept of the Iron Order"
#gcost 235
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: ?
-- Original Price: 80g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: rb(4)
#selectmonster 478
#name "Sage"
#gcost 105
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: ????
-- Original Price: 150g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: rb(6)
#selectmonster 479
#name "Lore Master"
#gcost 200
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: FES
-- Original Price: 90g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 6
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 480
#name "Magus"
#gcost 110
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: F2, E, S2
-- Original Price: 190g
-- Prec: 9
-- Enc: 7
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 481
#name "High Magus"
#gcost 230
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: W2, H2
-- Original Price: 170g (Sacred)
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 4
-- Abilities: amph, grants extra 5 water breathing
#selectmonster 529
#name "Sea Father"
#gcost 200
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: AES
-- Original Price: 300g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: Alchemy Bonus 50%
#selectmonster 551
#name "Alchemist"
#gcost 300
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: N2
-- Original Price: 120g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: st(+0), surv(f), summons extra vinemen
#selectmonster 552
#name "Animist"
#gcost 140
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: S2, D, ?
-- Original Price: 160g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: f(-4)
#selectmonster 630
#name "Elludian Moon Mage"
#gcost 190
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: A, S
-- Original Price: 180g
-- Prec: 11
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: sail
#selectmonster 869
#name "Navigator"
#gcost 215
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: ##
-- Original Price: 200g
-- Prec: 10
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: none
#selectmonster 875
#name "Warrior Mage"
#gcost 150
#end


-- Nation: Indy Site
-- Paths: W2, S, ?
-- Original Price: 160g
-- Prec: 12
-- Enc: 5
-- Abilities: rb(7)
#selectmonster 999
#name "Wizard of the Crescent Moon"
#gcost 190
#end


#end

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  #3  
Old March 17th, 2005, 11:33 PM

quantum_mechani quantum_mechani is offline
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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

Quote:
Saber Cherry said:


1) What mages are too expensive for their power?
2) What mages are too cheap for their power?
3) Are there any mages you ALWAYS or NEVER build when you have the capability?
4) Do any nations strongly need a type of mage, a certain path, or a certain level in a path? For example, base Vanheim has no real blood hunting ability, and base TC or BF Ulm cannot use their national spells.
5) Any other suggest changes to the games mages?

As far as too expensive, I always considered abysian priest-mages(other than demonbreeds) a bit too costly. Possibly the Pandemoniac would also fall into this category. I also always thought it strange that the mother of avalon, which should be the most common witch, is very rarely built compared to crones and daughters. For too cheap, Caelum mages, maybe Vaetti hags (but they are so much fun that way), and then there are sages...

It is too bad there is no way to make all mages capital only, that would make mages feel more unique.
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Old March 18th, 2005, 07:01 AM

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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

Well, I mostly agree on the idea of making mages more expensive, but I'm not sure the main problem is the cost itself, but rather has to do with :
- The paths the mage gets : a caelian Air mage, at same levels, is vastly superior to a TC Water mage or an Ulm smith;
- The fact that the mage is or not capitol-restricted - the case of Caelum vs Abysia or Mictlan is telling;
- The more or less flexibility given by the randoms and their level. For example Mystics are very good, but Celestial masters are crappy.

But I've no clue as to how correct this ...
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  #5  
Old March 18th, 2005, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

Imho you should balance each mage per hand . The +20% Cost increase is wrong for some mages .
As former posters said the standard Abysian mages like Athamet Salamander and Athamet Dragon are for my taste even in Vanilla way to expensive , the Pan should not be made more expensive at least etc. .

On the other hand Sages , Seraphs , Arch Seraphs should be made more expensive , maybe also the Theurg .
Most other mages are imo fine as they are because they don't have that deadly abilities or are already capitol only or rather expensive .
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Old March 18th, 2005, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

Cherry, you need to redo the Oceanian mages to make sure you get them right. The data on them in the Unit DB is from November 18, and there were changes made before the Oceania mod became public. The DB is due for an update for them as well as adding the bugfixes, but I've not gotten around to doing it yet.

Edi
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  #7  
Old March 18th, 2005, 03:08 PM

Scott Hebert Scott Hebert is offline
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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

Cherry, I have a very long list (in fact, a laundry list) of changes that need to be made. If I could, I request that you focus on independent mages, since I hope to have my National Commander mod out within a week.

Anyway. Getting back to my thread...

[Edit: Cherry, I do recall (I wish I had my old files; I had done all of this already) that the Circle Master is very undercosted, and the Ice Druid and Sea Father are overcosted.]
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Old March 18th, 2005, 09:17 PM

TheSelfishGene TheSelfishGene is offline
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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

Actually its an admirable task your about to attempt; but one that i think is wrongheaded.

The problem with magic in Dominions 2 is not that its more powerful than conventional units; after all its supposed to be. The problem is that out of 500 spells, trying to make 475 of them work for you will cost you the game, while 25 of them are so powerful they can win almost irregardless of what your opponent does.

There was a contest in a previous post about an SC competition, but the winning SC apparently won because they used a Mind Control type spell since the SCs weren't marked as Pretenders. One player commented that "you just found a loophole and won the game with it", and that pretty much describes multiplayer Dom2 Find the most absurdly broken spell/summons and run with it, while everyone else is tooling around wondering if flails are better than axes. Not that you can blame them, its a complicated game and it takes time to find these broken abilities, but broken they are.

Now if you want to emphasise conventional troops you need to balance down; if you like magic, than balance up.

In other words, IMO as far as cost and everything, mages are fine. What is not fine are the summons and spells some of them can cast.
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  #9  
Old March 18th, 2005, 09:23 PM

Scott Hebert Scott Hebert is offline
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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

I disagree with your assumption that Dominions 2 is about magic and mages. In the game, Magic is a tool, just like any other. It should be balanced against all the other tools you have available.

Just because current game-balance requires a switch-over from recruited troops to summoned troops does not mean that it is always a requirement.

After my national commander analysis, I plan to try my hand at a summoned commander analysis, to see if they can be similarly re-balanced.
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Old March 19th, 2005, 12:10 AM
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Tuidjy Tuidjy is offline
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Default Re: Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

Quote:
TheSelfishGene said:
The problem is that out of 500 spells, trying to make 475 of them work for you will cost you the game, while 25 of them are so powerful they can win almost irregardless of what your opponent does.
Regardless of what you mean by 'irregardless', when you have 25 spells that
can each win the game, you have balance. Even someone who is hoarding,
madcastling, wrathing, ghostriding, teleporting around, mass enslaving, etc...
will have a hard time against someone doing the same.

Quote:
There was a contest in a previous post about an SC competition, but the winning SC apparently won because they used a Mind Control type spell since the SCs weren't marked as Pretenders. One player commented that "you just found a loophole and won the game with it", and that pretty much describes multiplayer Dom2
If all the SC had been pretenders, 'Soul Slay' would have achieved the exact same
effect, except Yvelina would not have had half a dozen bodyguards in the seventh
battle. If my contestant had not taken the gargoyle out with 'Petrify', Yvelina
would have had lost her first fight. In a multiplayer game, one has no excuse
for failing for a trick twice.

Quote:
Find the most absurdly broken spell/summons and run with it, while everyone else is tooling around wondering if flails are better than axes. Not that you can blame them, its a complicated game and it takes time to find these broken abilities, but broken they are.
Right, and ancient warfare was obviously broken because anyone who was tooling
around wondering whether obsydian is better than flint would have had a hard
time fighting off a roman legion.

You know, I suggest one simple test. I challenge you to a simple contest.
You will claim one strategy and I will not use it in the first game. In the
second game, you will choose an additional one. The point will be to see how
long it would take you to win.
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