SEV Recommend?

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, by asking Aaron to add a settings.txt option, mainly.

[Atrocities]

I currently have a game well into the hundred plus turn range and my processing time is about 45 seconds. That is with 5 players though.

The more I play the game the more I can't help but feel that it is one of the best 4x games to come along since SE IV.

It is also very comforting to know that Aaron is hard at work addressing bugs, working on the UI, the AI, and much more.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I agree with you Atrocities. Well said!

[Demorve]

I have to disagree with Atrocities and President_Elect_Shang about SEV becoming one of the best 4x games since SEIV. UI aside, there are games with a lot worse UI's than SEV (like NWN2), this game has to many thing wrong for it to ever become as good as SEIV. Like diplomacy, there are to many choices for the AI. The AI will never be able to handle diplomacy unless Aaron makes it possible to remove about 90% of the options. Ship building needs to streamed lined as well. Just have two rows one labled inner hull and the other outer hull, each can hold a certain percent of the total hull capacity. For example the inner hull can hold 30% of the total hull weight, the outer 70%. This means that a ship hull with a 200kt capacity would be able hold 60kt in the inner hull and 140kt in the outer hull. Directional damage needs to be removed and changed to this: components in the outer hull destroyed before the inner hull components. Having firing arcs in this game would make it to combersome to use in combat, especially when there are more than 50 ships to each side. I know of no other RTS that use firing arcs in their combat model (I don't consider SFC1-3 to be RTS's, they are real time tactical combat games using a limited number of ships at one time). Just try and imagine having to remember the firing arc of over 50 ships and then moving an individual ship so as to take advantage of it's firing arc. If you thought the AI is weak now, just add firing arcs to the mix. You could add firing arcs if combat was turned base like it was in MOO2.

To me the way this game stands now it's probably an excellent multi-player game as long as there are no computer players, but since I don't have the time to play multi-player, SEV becomes a below average 4x strategy game. I don't think SEV will ever become as good as SEIV was and is, so I think Aaron should cut his losses here and move on to SEVI and take the things that worked well in SEIV and SEV and combine them into one very awesome game with a superior AI.

[Suicide Junkie]

AI is one thing that has a lot of growth potential in SE5.

SE4 AIs were very weak before TDM...
And until Rollo made the AIs for CBmod, I'd never seen any reason to not use the high bonus (5x multiplier). In CB, a no bonus, level playing field is a challenge Half the challenge is from good AIs, but half the challenge is also due to having a balanced mod with no cheap tricks available (including no tactical combat, leaky shields/armor/point defense).

SE5 has only a little more complexity than SE4, and a *lot* more potential power in the AI routines.
Mods and AIs are things that will come from the community, and Aaron can't directly help much with that.
AIs WILL come, just be patient and play more SE4.

Also, try to get into multiplayer, even if it is only a twice-weekly game.

PS:
Outer hull *is* hit before inner hull.
You could change directional damage to random damage, but that wouldn't really help any.
Also, there are no firing arcs. (Some models can't fire in certain directions, which is really a shipset problem)
And consider simul move and strategic combat; Tactical = cheating if you're playing against AIs.

[Kana]

Demorve said:
I know of no other RTS that use firing arcs in their combat model (I don't consider SFC1-3 to be RTS's, they are real time tactical combat games using a limited number of ships at one time). You could add firing arcs if combat was turned base like it was in MOO2.

I'm fairly certain that Company of Heroes uses some form of arcs...otherwise targeting the rear of a tank would be a useless endevor.

Also the Combat Mission series while not strictly an RTS or a TB game has arcs for the armor protection as well.

That being said...

I would prefer that combat in SEV was turn based, and that we did have the arcs...I still dont understand what has been added to the gameplay, other than the eye candy of realtime moving ships and effects...

Just remember in the end its just one guy doing the programming...

[Captain Kwok]

How about the vast improvement in the fairness of combat with RT?

[Phoenix-D]

The AI can be made to handle the upgraded treaty options; I think Kwok's done most of the work there with the Balance mod.

The essential problem with SEV is it isn't done. Its playable for me, but I can see how others disagree.

[Fyron]

From a play balance perspective, SE4 style turn based combat is fundamentally broken. Real time execution eliminates the absurdity of one side firing all of its weapons before the other can react that plagued SE4 to no end. SE4 combats tend to be very one-sided, with the victor barely taking a scratch. Some mods can ameliorate this somewhat (aka leaky defenses), but the intrinsic flaw remains.

It is certainly possible to make turn based combat systems that emulate the realism and inherent balance of real time execution, but such systems tend to become bogged down with needlessly complicated initiative and phase rulesets.

[Atrocities]

Demorve said:
I have to disagree with Atrocities and President_Elect_Shang about SEV becoming one of the best 4x games since SEIV.

I am holding out hope that it will. But you might be correct, even this beast might be to tough for even Aaron.