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Old December 15th, 2017, 03:38 PM

Kiwikkiwik Kiwikkiwik is offline
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Default Smg

The SMG category includes a lot of weapons that have very different performances with respect to effective range. For example the Hungarian Model 39M/43M or Czecholovakian ZK 383 are clearly in a different category than say the STEN.
So I made a spreadsheet and I included the factors that I think effect range, and weighted them so as to conform with some generally held beliefs about SMG range.
British and American infantry weapons of World war 2 by A J Barker says
The STEN... but it had many serious faults and was never popular...The standard of production was often poor and this aggravated the defects inherent in the design...bordering on crudity.
He gives the STEN an effective range of 30m
Encyclopedia of weapons of WW2 by Chris bishop says Soumi and Berretta had effective ranges up to 300m, Berretta with the proviso that this is on single shot.
Encyclopedia of infantry weapons of ww2 by Ian Hogg says the Soumi is so well made its accurate up to 300m
A. J. Barkers German infantry Weapons of world war 2 gives these effective ranges.
MP 18 300 yds
MP 28 300 yds
Erma 300 yds
Bereta 300 yds
MP 38-40 200yds
MP 44 300 yds
FG 42 300-600 yds, maybe meaning on automatic and single shot.
So Ive weighted the factors in my table to give a possible maximum range of no more than 300 metres and a minimum of 50.
I also took into account John Weeks comments in his book Infantry weapons. He says
Maximum effective range of pistol ammo is 200yds in a 8-9 inch barrel.
As for the factors,
For weight I used the PPD as a baseline value of 1 and the lightest, MAS 38 as ~0
For barrel length I used the shortest barrel SMG, STEN as 0 ranging up to a value of 2 for a KAR 98 rifle.
I used the FG42 MV of 2500 as a value of 1 and down to almost 0 for the slowest values of 1250
ROF got a slight advantage for slower, more controlable ROF.
Only PPD and PPSh weights include the magazine. I did this as these magazines are particularily heavy.
Sub machiune guns and automatic rifles by Peter Chamberlain and Terry Gander and many other Authors say the MP 34, MP 35 and MP 28 were very well made quality machined weapons.
Even though you might not agree with my weightings, I think the table illustrates that SMGs should have different ranges.

As the SMGs are relatively easy to find in the Database check utilities, I've just listed the ones difficult to identify.
Slovak Republic.
216 722(f) is the French MAS 38
Chinese communists
185 8mm Nambu SMG is Japanese type 100/40
216 722(f) is French MAS 38
233 MP 749(e) SMG is British STEN MkII
235 MP 739(i) SMG is Italian Beretta 1938
238 MP 760(a) SMG is Yugoslavian Thompson
246 MP 717(r) SMG is Soviet PPSh 41
Nationalist China
185 8mm Nambu SMG is Japanese type 100/40
158 PM 1934 SMG is MP 35
158 PM M.39 should be MP 28, used in the east indies.
002 M/34-40 DPP SMG is Soviet PPD
238 Kpist m/44 SMG, copy of Soviet PPS-43
228 Kpist m/40 SMG is this a pistol?
227 Kp m/37-39(Kp m/37?) SMG is Finish Soumi m/31
225 Kpist m/39 SMG, is German Bergman MP 35
238 34M Steyr SMG is German MP34(o)
248 Mauser M32 SMG is this a pistol?

These videos are interesting to watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-PmLxkOmaM copmare STENs and lanchester
this is a replica but is more accurate than contempory MPs

Lanchester and PPD-40 are close copies of MP28.
Lanchester and Type 100 have fixed or adjustable sights I've opted for adjustable.
Austrian solothurn s1 100 is the same as the German MP 34(o). These weapons, and MP35 all had a range of barrel lengths to choose from.
Some versions of the MP 34(o) and S1-100 used the more powerful mauser 9mm cartridge, some the weaker Parabellum 9mm.
Schmeiser MP38/40 had a very light bolt for a SMG which adds to accurracy, but bolt weight isnt included in the table as I dont know the weight of all the bolts. So it might be a bit underrated for range.
Owen SMG had a violent action because of short bolt travel 2 3/8" vs STEN's 5 1/8"
Early STEN had only two rifling grooves.
I suggest Seperating out the STEN MK 5 from the other STENs. STEN mk 5 is a much better gun with improved manufacture. It was used by the British paratroopers from 1944 onwards
Cannot find the Spanish Star SMG TN35 and Star SMG RU35 muzzle velocities so Ive given them the generic 1250.
Attached Files
File Type: xls SMG.xls (52.5 KB, 9 views)
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Old December 15th, 2017, 04:46 PM
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Mobhack Mobhack is offline
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Default Re: Smg

You have been here a while so you should know that the TO&E sub-forum is the place for queries on equipment.

Rifles and SMG are generic weapons in the game and always have and will be.

If you feel that you want 300 yard SMG sections - by all means, use Mobhack to make your own OObs and post those in the Mods forum.

But pistols, rifles, SMG, LMG etc will be staying exactly as they are in the default OOBs.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 07:17 PM
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DRG DRG is offline
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Default Re: Smg

NOTHING is going to be changed in regards to SMG ranges. The "effective" ranges you quote are rediculous for pistol caliber ammo in actual combat. Stop making suggestions like this. They will not be acted upon and all they do is annoy us
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