Warning: Illegal string offset 'type' in [path]/includes/class_postbit.php(294) : eval()'d code on line 65
Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching - Page 2 - .com.unity Forums
.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Air Assault Task Force- Save $9.00
Bronze- Save $9.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 3: The Awakening

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 02:14 AM
AreaOfEffect's Avatar

AreaOfEffect AreaOfEffect is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,099
Thanks: 56
Thanked 122 Times in 48 Posts
AreaOfEffect is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching

A rainbow pretender is a big bundle of research in one little package. This actually makes him a terrible site searcher when you think of the opportunity cost. Your pretender can either be the equivalent of 5 to 6 national mages doing research, or one exceptional mage searching for sites every other round. Its better in my opinion for you to have 5 to 6 mages go out there site search while the pretender picks up the slack at home.

The only time you want your pretender to be the one doing the site searching is when one of your key strategies involves finding gems of a path that only your god has. Even still, you want your national mages to rule out unlikely provinces in order to optimize your pretender's time. Provinces with 2 sites found already will unlikely have a 3rd.
__________________
Strategy Guide: MA Caelum - Fear of Flying
Strategy Guide: LA Man - Death and Taxes
Strategy Guide: MA Mictlan - An Introduction
Guide Supplement: LA Man - Castle Warfare
Referance: Prophet Transformations

Last edited by AreaOfEffect; October 3rd, 2009 at 02:23 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 01:09 PM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
BANNED USER
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,075
Thanks: 203
Thanked 121 Times in 91 Posts
chrispedersen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching

Depends AoE.

Some circumstances where a rainbow makes a good searcher:

- You have good recruitable everywhere mages, with a good gp/rp ratio. For example EA-Ermor. The research you lose from your god researching is easily made up on national mages.

Scales go a long way to figuring this as well.

- Single path mages. Tien Chi doesn't need a rainbow to search - he has celestial masters for example. However if your nation has predominantly single path mages... Nicht var!

For example if it takes 4 mages to equal the search of your pretender, or you don't *have* different path mages.

Finally- there are some strategies which are heavily gem dependent - Caelum for example. Early site searching may be required despite it not being optimal.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:17 PM

Psycho Psycho is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 913
Thanks: 21
Thanked 53 Times in 33 Posts
Psycho is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching

IMO taking a pretender just for the research he brings would be a very niche situation. On a non-SC pretender I will usually try to get the magic paths my nation lacks and send him start searching immediately. If you need to get a research goal reached quickly and every research point counts, only then will I consider using my pretender for research.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:36 PM

Immaculate Immaculate is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 992
Thanks: 47
Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Immaculate is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispedersen View Post

Finally- there are some strategies which are heavily gem dependent - Caelum for example. Early site searching may be required despite it not being optimal.
Since i am playing Caelum in my first MP, why would site-searching early be more important for them?
Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:49 PM
AreaOfEffect's Avatar

AreaOfEffect AreaOfEffect is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,099
Thanks: 56
Thanked 122 Times in 48 Posts
AreaOfEffect is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching

Chris, Funny you should mention EA Ermor. That is precisely the nation I used to flush out the tactic described above.

I used my great sage (vanilla) pretender to research while I regularly sent out Augur Elders to site search. What made the strategy synergistic was that, while searching, the elders were also able to support expansion as viable combat mages. With combat mages out on the field casting spells like fire darts on turn 2, fireball by turn 7, and raise dead by turn 12, I was assured that I would have both the gems and the power to defend myself. It gave me better expansion, the number one spot on gems by the first year, and gave me the number 2 spot on research (beaten by another awake rainbow). Also, like I said before, it helped to economize my god's own site searching by allowing him to focus on provinces that hadn't turned up sites yet.

You might disagree with me, but it would be hard for you to convince me its a bad idea considering I've seen the results first hand and found it to my liking.
__________________
Strategy Guide: MA Caelum - Fear of Flying
Strategy Guide: LA Man - Death and Taxes
Strategy Guide: MA Mictlan - An Introduction
Guide Supplement: LA Man - Castle Warfare
Referance: Prophet Transformations
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 05:29 PM
Squirrelloid Squirrelloid is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,157
Thanks: 69
Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
Squirrelloid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
IMO taking a pretender just for the research he brings would be a very niche situation. On a non-SC pretender I will usually try to get the magic paths my nation lacks and send him start searching immediately. If you need to get a research goal reached quickly and every research point counts, only then will I consider using my pretender for research.
There are a number of nations who really need a research pretender. Eriu comes to mind (crappy researchers available at non-capitol locations, really needs rapid early research for optimal performance). EA Caelum also has a desperate need of rapid early research, and its EKs are too valuable to stick in a lab for very long.

I mean, in general an awake pretender is a niche choice - either you need an SC or you need the research now. And most dormant/imprisoned pretenders are taken for scales, a bless, and/or magic diversity.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 07:11 PM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
BANNED USER
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,075
Thanks: 203
Thanked 121 Times in 91 Posts
chrispedersen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect View Post
Chris, Funny you should mention EA Ermor. That is precisely the nation I used to flush out the tactic described above.

I used my great sage (vanilla) pretender to research while I regularly sent out Augur Elders to site search. What made the strategy synergistic was that, while searching, the elders were also able to support expansion as viable combat mages. With combat mages out on the field casting spells like fire darts on turn 2, fireball by turn 7, and raise dead by turn 12, I was assured that I would have both the gems and the power to defend myself. It gave me better expansion, the number one spot on gems by the first year, and gave me the number 2 spot on research (beaten by another awake rainbow). Also, like I said before, it helped to economize my god's own site searching by allowing him to focus on provinces that hadn't turned up sites yet.

You might disagree with me, but it would be hard for you to convince me its a bad idea considering I've seen the results first hand and found it to my liking.
Well, we agree on many things. I have no problem getting 16+ territories with ermor without combat mages the first year.
To me the problem with ermor is no middle game - one way to address that is summons.

Now, the most important way is via death - which can be accomplished with national mages. Ermor has week or no access to WANB - so its generally useful to have those paths on the pretender.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 07:12 PM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
BANNED USER
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,075
Thanks: 203
Thanked 121 Times in 91 Posts
chrispedersen is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Balancing Very Early Research and Site Searching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Immaculate View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispedersen View Post

Finally- there are some strategies which are heavily gem dependent - Caelum for example. Early site searching may be required despite it not being optimal.
Since i am playing Caelum in my first MP, why would site-searching early be more important for them?
Thanks.
Well, squirreloid said it pretty well. Most people use caelums national mages for fast expansion. Hence they aren't available for site searching.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.