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  #1  
Old July 23rd, 2006, 06:10 PM

MHowe MHowe is offline
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Default Problems with random campaign generator

I started two random campaigns in WinSPWW2 recently. Both ended after two battles and the generator appears mostly broken to me. In both cases I was able to win the first battle (one delay and one defend) and was overwhelmed in the second battle (one assault and one delay). The second battles put me against overwhelming enemy numbers. In one case I had to assault an enemy that was dug in, had minefields, pillboxes, superior armor, superior artillery, and more infantry than me. I estimate that I was outnumbered about 1.5 to 1, not counting the advantages of being dug in and the minefields. In the second case I had to delay an advancing Italian force, and I had just won a decisive victory in the previous scenario so I had an expanded core plus good support units. But they came at me with what seemed like every man in the Italian army. I ran out of artillery shells and most of my tanks ran out of HE ammo. I held them off for 30+ turns, killing them with shell, bombs, and guns. They retreated and routed and then kept coming. It was like fighting a freaking Klingon horde. Does the morale of an army even break?? The Italians never fought like they did in that scenario. Hell, I don't think the Japanese ever charged with more disregard for losses. I was given a marginal defeat. I had killed 1283 Italian troops, which is over 100 squads, but they still had a sea of men stretching across the map at the battle's end. And this despite the fact that I had "AI tank heavy" switched on!

So, are the random scenarios an excerise in futility? Do they always generate such ridiculous situations? Is it impossible to win by breaking an enemy's morale? And why doesn't the tank heavy switch work? And please don't bother to tell me that I need to play better, because I played well: these were genuinely unwinnable situations. WinSPWW2 might be a good game with authored scenarios, but I'm very discouraged by the campaign generator.
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Old July 23rd, 2006, 06:29 PM
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Mobhack Mobhack is offline
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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

if your campaign is only ending after 2 battles - then did your A0 get killed?. Getting "yourself" killed terminates the campaign.

As to troop ratios, "AI tank heavy" does not mean a fleet of panzers with no supporting infantry, it just means more tanks (generally a company buy instead of a platoon, if it has the points). Try buying an Italian force with computer buy with and without the switch on (do it about 10 times with each switch setting for a representative sample).

What was the value of your core + supports? - The OPFOR will get 2.5 times that in an assault, and if Italian with lower morale and training than your troops, that means the same points will buy more - perhaps 1.5 to 2 rifle coys to one British one. Plus many Italian rifle sections are rifle only, no LMG - rather cheaper.

Armies will break at about 75% destroyed or in rout of the on-map forces and all victory hexes owned by the other side and none of thier forces near enough to an enemy-held hex to contest it.

Cheers
Andy
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Old July 23rd, 2006, 09:15 PM

MHowe MHowe is offline
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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

No, technically the campaign did not end. I chose not to go on after two battles, since my force was almost completely shot up and I couldn't repair my units.

As for the tank heavy issue, I maintain that it's broken. I was fighting with a force that had perhaps 40% tanks, and the AI attacked me with 100% infantry.

And given the morale breaking conditions in your response, I think those also need to be revisited. There is no way the Italians would have kept charing up those hills in the face of such slaughter the way that they did.

I know the designers and fans of this game are going to defend it, and on other fronts it deserves defending, but realistically, if the random campaign generator produces situations that are this ridiculous and unsatisfying, please admit that something is not right.
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Old July 24th, 2006, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

Do you have a save of your campaign?

Claus B
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Old July 24th, 2006, 04:59 AM

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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

MHowe,
I don't understand how the ratio of points have worked in your case : normally in an assault the *attacker* has a 2.5 to 1 advantage, in Delays it is 1.5 to 1 IIRC.
But here you say you had to assault an enemy which had a 1.5+/1 advantage and then had to delay an enemy that had more than 3:1 ? How is that possible ?
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Old July 24th, 2006, 05:01 AM

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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

what were the dates of your campaigns ?
What type of campaigns were they ?

I played a 4 battles in a generated campaign and was never overwhelmed, but the enemy always had tanks, so that means equally less infantry.

maybe if the italian had no tanks available for these dates that would mean that infantry swarm ?
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Old July 24th, 2006, 09:34 AM

MHowe MHowe is offline
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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

No, I didn't keep the saves, unfortunately.

The date of the campaign was 1944. There were plenty of Italian armored vehicles available, so it's baffling that none were chosen by the computer.

As for the "how is this possible" question, well that's what I was hoping someone in here would answer. I guess it's possible that point-wise, the ratio was not more than 2:1 because Italian infantry is so much cheaper than American armor, but it's also not the game I wanted which is why I had the tank heavy switch on.

No one thinks the army morale model is questionable? You all find it acceptable that the Italian infantry swarm charged my tanks and guns despite being slaughtered and driven back repeatedly? Just asking.
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Old July 24th, 2006, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

was this "Italy" - Italy or "Italy" - Italian Socialist Republic (Mussolini's mob/German allies) in 1944?.

Italy at that date has surrendered to the Allies, and has no real armour. They fought some anti partisan stuff, but really were out of the war. So Italy is still in there - for some mop up stuff in the Balakans, Italian islands (against Germany). Negligible armour support (even if you chose tank heavy, since tank heavy will not do much for an infantry heavy force). Post the Italian surrender, the OOB is there for partisan/police type stuff, or remote Greek Island defences against Germans etc. or as auxilaiies to the Allies. They are not valid opponents for the Allies at that point in time (1944). They are valid as allies to the Allies, in a supporting role, providing infantry units.

The opponents of the Allies, are the RSI (Italian Social Republic - Italian flag with an eagle superimposed - October 43 to May 45) . These do have access to a modicum of German supplied armour etc. Though they were an infantry army in reality. These ones are the Italians that were fighting on as the German allies. The AI pick for RSI produces a fair amount of tin cans.

You can find full info on the various Italies in the Game Guide - "historical design notes" section, then scroll down to the country descriptions section.

You should try again, with the RSI as the correct Italian opponent for the Allies. (If this is a generated campaign where you chose the 3 opponents, as opposed to a WW2 Long Campaign which is scripted).

Cheers
Andy
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Old July 24th, 2006, 12:03 PM

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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

@ MHove: If you find campain too hard you can change AI:Playrer force ratio in the CamoGame.ini there is "Campaign AI Point Adjustments.txt" description, how to do it.
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Old July 24th, 2006, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Problems with random campaign generator

It would also be quite helpful if you told us how many points you started off with. Nowhere have you told us if your core was 500 points or 25,000 points. Also, How big was the map ? If you played with high points on a small or smallish map against an opponent without a lot of armour you will be swamped with infantry

If you want to see what the AI would generally buy for "Italy" ( whatever one you used ) in a campaign simply set up the battle generator to computer buy and human deploy and generate a few battles at various points and you will see what's being bought Defence will be different buys than advance or assualt so you need to generate those battles as well to see the force mix

Don
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