Sturer Emil

[Heisenburg]

Speaking of TD's and to nit pick a bit, >.>. I noticed the in game picture of the German Emil is actually a photo of a Dicker Max. Easiest way to tell is the size, the Emil being much larger. Also the Dicker Max was built on a Pz IV frame. While the Emil was built on the vK 30001 (h), which had interlevered wheels. Love the game. just ponting this out.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Heisenburg

Speaking of TD's and to nit pick a bit, >.>. I noticed the in game picture of the German Emil is actually a photo of a Dicker Max. Easiest way to tell is the size, the Emil being much larger. Also the Dicker Max was built on a Pz IV frame. While the Emil was built on the vK 30001 (h), which had interlevered wheels. Love the game. just ponting this out.

The original source I used to build the Emil included that photo and drawings so it's quite possible that the drawings I based the Icon on were wrong as well. It's on the list to investigate but, as Andy said, this would have been better posted as a new thread on the T0&E sub forum ( but don't do it now I have the info noted down )

Don


~~~~~~~~~~~~EDIT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A quick look at the old patch folder seems to indicate the Icon is good, it's the photo that needs to be changed......or I may build a Max and use that photo for it although I am finding other good ones as well

[Rosollia]

To me the icon file ingame looks correct but the unit picture is wrong.
Here are info on the two vehicles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturer_Emil
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sel105.htm#pzjag

Also both vehicles were prototypes with just two pieces produced. They did saw combat though. Still maybe adding them to a "prototype" formation would be better.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Rosollia

To me the icon file ingame looks correct but the unit picture is wrong.
Here are info on the two vehicles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturer_Emil
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sel105.htm#pzjag

Also both vehicles were prototypes with just two pieces produced. They did saw combat though. Still maybe adding them to a "prototype" formation would be better.

I may do that......


Don

[DRG]

This is an EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of why we harp about keeping threads on the original topic and not wander all over the place. If there was a way for us to move individual posts we would ( We found the way....... )but once it starts it takes on a life of it's own.

It has been noted that the Emil was based on the vK 30001 (h) frame whereas the Dicker Max was built on the Pz IV frame ( 8 road wheels ). Take a look at these photos.....

http://flickriver.com/photos/deckarudo/5906186939/
http://flickriver.com/photos/deckarudo/5563841963/

6 road wheels----- so whatever this is, it's built on the Pz III chassis but it's reported as being a Panzer-Selbstfahrlafette IV but with 6 road wheels it could not be.

There are quite a few photos of the Max on line. Lot's considering how few were made but , as noted, they did see combat but that photo link shows something else altogether unless there were versions built on the pz III chassis as well.

Anyway...... I'll sort it out but it shows how easily things can be mis-identified


Don

[Heisenburg]

My bad will keep it in mind for later reference. i do apoligize.

[Rosollia]

Originally Posted by DRG

This is an EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of why we harp about keeping threads on the original topic and not wander all over the place. If there was a way for us to move individual posts we would but once it starts it takes on a life of it's own.

It has been noted that the Emil was based on the vK 30001 (h) frame whereas the Dicker Max was built on the Pz IV frame ( 8 road wheels ). Take a look at these photos.....

http://flickriver.com/photos/deckarudo/5906186939/
http://flickriver.com/photos/deckarudo/5563841963/

6 road wheels----- so whatever this is, it's built on the Pz III chassis but it's reported as being a Panzer-Selbstfahrlafette IV but with 6 road wheels it could not be.

There are quite a few photos of the Max on line. Lot's considering how few were made but , as noted, they did see combat but that photo link shows something else altogether unless there were versions built on the pz III chassis as well.

Anyway...... I'll sort it out but it shows how easily things can be mis-identified


Don

You might want to check this:
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/wafft.htm#sd165

[Rosollia]

Heuschrecke 10
Waffenträger (Weapon Carrier)

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/wafft.htm#heu



Sd.Kfz.165/1

"based on modified Panzerkampfwagen IV's chassis (Sd.Kfz.161). Modified chassis consisted of three-station bogies per side and larger road wheels."
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/wafft.htm#sd165



10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa
"Dickermax"

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sel105.htm#pzjag



12.8cm Selbstfahrlafette L/61
(Panzerselbstfahrlafette V)
"Sturer Emil / Stubborn Emil"

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/heu.htm#128



So these are all different vehicles. Although very similar.

[Ts4EVER]

Dicker Max



Sturer Emil (Moritz)



Sturer Emil (Max)

[DRG]

Well , well this has turned into more than I expected

THIS is the drawing I based the Icon on.



Compare that to the drawing posted above then compare that to the existing Icon ( this is 3x in game size )




Here is a copy of the new photo I am using for the Emil scaled very close to the same size as the re-sized Icon



Based on that it would seem that the drawing I used to build the Icon is correct..........but it's not. ( Wikipedia strikes again ! )

The problem building "exotic" Icons from drawing/photos and then applying published dimensions and rescaling to fit the game is when the "length" dimension is published for a vehicle that has a gun that overhangs the front of the hull it's not always clear if that is OVERALL length including gun overhang or just hull length.

After being bitten more than once in the past when in doubt I check published widths and if I'm lucky and they all agree I build the width then scale the length to that.

Overall Length 9.7 metres (31.82 ft)
Width 3.16 metres (10.37 ft)
Height 2.7 metres (8.86 ft)

This translates for game purposes to an Icon that is .....

21 pixels wide and 64 long and 18 high ( if we cared about height ---normally we don't but it factors in this time )

When that drawing is re-scaled to 21 pixels wide the hull length is 65 pixels long which is very close to what we are looking for so I ASSUMED the length dimensions I had were for hull length.

.......but that's wrong. To make a long post short when the actual photo is rescaled for the known height of the vehicle it becomes clear that 9.7 metres INCLUDES the gun and when the Icon is recaled to match those figures it ends up looking like this ( 3x normal size )



....which matches the drawing posted in the previous posts and further matches top view models I have found that didn't exist when I built the Icon.

That ate an entire morning......

So there will be a new photo and a revised Icon of the Emil in the next patch. Unfortunately the correct icon isn't quite as exotic looking as the old one

Don