.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $8.00
winSPWW2- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPWW2 > Campaigns, Scenarios & Maps
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 10th, 2017, 02:21 AM

Gerry1 Gerry1 is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 58
Thanks: 23
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Gerry1 is on a distinguished road
Default 48. Seela's Pioneers

Hi: Hoping you can give me some tips on winning this. Basically visibility is 5 as it is a night attack. You have some SPW 251/1 with Pioneers but no tanks or artillery. You have one SPW 251/16 Flammpanzer. The town has a bunch of T-34s and ATGs in there so I was not able to overcome them.

1) How far forward do you drive the SPWs? I want to play historically and my understanding is they were mostly to deliver infantry to an area but not get too close due to their weak armor. I read somewhere they should stay say 400m back from the action?

2) How do you use them to scout, if at all, as you don't have armored cars.

3) I dismounted infantry near the town. They have flamethrowers so I went into buildings one hex from the T-34s. But the from the T-34s is very powerful and sometimes routed/pinned etc. the pioneers.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old November 10th, 2017, 02:29 AM

Gerry1 Gerry1 is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 58
Thanks: 23
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Gerry1 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

Here is an excerpt from Nipe's decision in the Ukraine:

"In the evening, a Totenkopf battle group under command of Knight’s Cross winner SS-Sturmbannführer Max Seela engaged the troops of 49th Tank Brigade and 17th Tank Regiment that held Levandolovka. The SS combat engineers of 1./ Pionier-Abteilung 3 assaulted the village, broke into the perimeter and destroyed a number of the Soviet tanks with antitank weapons in close combat. Only a few survivors of the Russian force were able to escape to a wooded area northwest of the village. The sixty to seventy men of Kampfgruppe Seela continued north from the village, reached the railroad line near a rail station at Vodjanaja and worked slowly down the length of the railroad toward the west. 5 The battle group of 112th Tank Brigade that had occupied Vysokopol’ye continued to fight off In the evening, a Totenkopf battle group under command of Knight’s Cross winner SS-Sturmbannführer Max Seela engaged the troops of 49th Tank Brigade and 17th Tank Regiment that held Levandolovka. The SS combat engineers of 1./ Pionier-Abteilung 3 assaulted the village, broke into the perimeter and destroyed a number of the Soviet tanks with antitank weapons in close combat. Only a few survivors of the Russian force were able to escape to a wooded area northwest of the village. The sixty to seventy men of Kampfgruppe Seela continued north from the village, reached the railroad line near a rail station at Vodjanaja and worked slowly down the length of the railroad toward the west. 5 The battle group of 112th Tank Brigade that had occupied Vysokopol’ye continued to fight off attacks by other elements of the SS engineer battalion that attempted to drive them from the town."
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gerry1 For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old November 10th, 2017, 08:34 AM

jivemi jivemi is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Philippines
Posts: 502
Thanks: 411
Thanked 142 Times in 102 Posts
jivemi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

--Spoiler Alert--

1) Don't lead with the Flammpanzer; drop off your infantry about 300 meters from the objective (and better stay off the road coming in). Wait until infantry engage the T-34s, either to close assault, hit them with AT weapons, or simply soak off their shots. Then you may attack the weakest one(s) with the flamer, provided that you're reasonably assured no enemy can take potshots at it. (The designer, CB Blackard, is a master at hidden surprises).
2) Don't scout with it either--without designated scout units your infantry are the default. After capturing the first town you will be obliged to take chances with infantry in HTs (SPW 251/1s) to go for the northern objectives, but keep the Flammpanzer behind them. IIRC it's best to take several routes (some along the road, some off) north with your HT's to avoid running into enemy speeding to counterattack, and don't go too fast--maybe half speed--along the road. Dismount at least one infantry after moving for a "lookaround" and to spot enemy on the Russian interturn--or at least a chance to spot them, since they've moved as fast as their transports.
3) The first town is key to further success. After dismounting the infantry advance no more than one or two hexes per turn, preferably in buildings, trees or craters. Swivel them around on each move to check for enemy on the flanks. If you're not sure lay down smoke to block LOS (line of sight). After taking the town consider leaving one infantry behind to make sure no "lurkers" can take the objective with impunity.

Hope that helps. It's a challenging scenario based on historical events. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jivemi For This Useful Post:
  #4  
Old November 10th, 2017, 05:14 PM

Gerry1 Gerry1 is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 58
Thanks: 23
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Gerry1 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

Thanks very much for the tips. I tried some of those ideas but I am sure my execution was probably not great. T-34s at 50m did a lot of damage to my infantry in the buildings.

A few more questions:
1) What do you do with the SPWs after unloading as they are so thin skinned and the Soviets have T-34s and ATG? Do you move them around to get eyes on part of the battle? In this scenario if they try to support infantry with MG fire they will expose themselves.

2) Some of you have read way more WW II history than me. I am wondering how the Germans historically decided when to dismount from the APCs and also get off the road when they didn't have armored cars for scouting. (As you say in the scenario you need a good first turn so if you are too cautious it will not work.)

Thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jivemi View Post
--Spoiler Alert--

1) Don't lead with the Flammpanzer; drop off your infantry about 300 meters from the objective (and better stay off the road coming in). Wait until infantry engage the T-34s, either to close assault, hit them with AT weapons, or simply soak off their shots. Then you may attack the weakest one(s) with the flamer, provided that you're reasonably assured no enemy can take potshots at it. (The designer, CB Blackard, is a master at hidden surprises).
2) Don't scout with it either--without designated scout units your infantry are the default. After capturing the first town you will be obliged to take chances with infantry in HTs (SPW 251/1s) to go for the northern objectives, but keep the Flammpanzer behind them. IIRC it's best to take several routes (some along the road, some off) north with your HT's to avoid running into enemy speeding to counterattack, and don't go too fast--maybe half speed--along the road. Dismount at least one infantry after moving for a "lookaround" and to spot enemy on the Russian interturn--or at least a chance to spot them, since they've moved as fast as their transports.
3) The first town is key to further success. After dismounting the infantry advance no more than one or two hexes per turn, preferably in buildings, trees or craters. Swivel them around on each move to check for enemy on the flanks. If you're not sure lay down smoke to block LOS (line of sight). After taking the town consider leaving one infantry behind to make sure no "lurkers" can take the objective with impunity.

Hope that helps. It's a challenging scenario based on historical events. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 10th, 2017, 05:31 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,929
Thanks: 440
Thanked 1,853 Times in 1,217 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

Moved thread to campaigns and scenarios forum, as its a scenario question.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 10th, 2017, 08:53 PM

jivemi jivemi is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Philippines
Posts: 502
Thanks: 411
Thanked 142 Times in 102 Posts
jivemi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

[quote=Gerry1;840180]Thanks very much for the tips. I tried some of those ideas but I am sure my execution was probably not great. T-34s at 50m did a lot of damage to my infantry in the buildings.

A few more questions:
1) What do you do with the SPWs after unloading as they are so thin skinned and the Soviets have T-34s and ATG? Do you move them around to get eyes on part of the battle? In this scenario if they try to support infantry with MG fire they will expose themselves.

2) Some of you have read way more WW II history than me. I am wondering how the Germans historically decided when to dismount from the APCs and also get off the road when they didn't have armored cars for scouting. (As you say in the scenario you need a good first turn so if you are too cautious it will not work.)

Thanks again.

[quote=jivemi;840176]

1) Against tanks or ATGs always leave APCs behind the infantry, waiting for them to deal with the steel monsters, AT guns, etc. Once they've crushed resistance then remount the Pioneers to head for other objectives. Personally don't use APCs (or armored cars--too expensive) for scouting, except when pressed for time or considering whether to advance tanks along a particular route. In the latter case a blown-up HT is cheaper than a tank!

2) Seems much of tactical combat "history" is either anecdotal, classified, or obscure. Really don't know about German mechanized infantry doctrine. Perhaps someone with more information could enlighten us?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jivemi For This Useful Post:
  #7  
Old November 10th, 2017, 09:26 PM
scorpio_rocks's Avatar

scorpio_rocks scorpio_rocks is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 1,036
Thanks: 337
Thanked 432 Times in 311 Posts
scorpio_rocks is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

I believe that German panzer-grenadiers were the ONLY "armoured" infantry trained to fight from their APCs.

Interesting contemporary video showing tactics for a panzergrenadier company, with flamm platoon (and admittedly a tankdestroyer section) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMj16ieMCt4
__________________

"Gentlemen, when the enemy is committed to a mistake - we must not interrupt him too soon."
Horatio Nelson.
SPMBT Roundel Objectives Mod
SPMBT Small ID Flags Mod
WW2 Roundel Objectives Mod
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to scorpio_rocks For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old November 10th, 2017, 10:10 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 12,227
Thanks: 3,798
Thanked 5,390 Times in 2,687 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

Very interesting video
__________________


If you find you are constantly reacting to your enemy's tactics instead forcing the enemy to react to yours, you are losing the battle....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 10th, 2017, 10:12 PM

Gerry1 Gerry1 is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 58
Thanks: 23
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Gerry1 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

Can loaded infantry fire from the APC? And is it combined with the firepower of the APC itself. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 10th, 2017, 10:33 PM
Mobhack's Avatar

Mobhack Mobhack is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundee
Posts: 5,929
Thanks: 440
Thanked 1,853 Times in 1,217 Posts
Mobhack is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 48. Seela's Pioneers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry1 View Post
Can loaded infantry fire from the APC? And is it combined with the firepower of the APC itself. Thanks.
No. Mounted fire (and APC gunports as with the BMP) have always been regarded as worthless
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mobhack For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2024, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.