The Pantokrator!

[HoneyBadger]

I was wondering-for the purposes of creating a mod-what peoples' opinions would be as to the form the Pantokrator would take, and the race of people it would lead, if the (obviously limited) former Pantokrator were to show up in a game as a neutral power. The idea for this is that the Pantokrator has been greatly weakened by the escape of various gods he once captured and used for his power, but he's not gone/dead, and still needs to be "physically" defeated by the player-nations before they can fight it out amongst themselves.

[Foodstamp]

I imagine the Pantokrator as a juggernaut of a titan that is a recurring theme in European mythologies. Examples would be Chronus from Greek mythology and Ymir from Norse mythologies. In both instances, a god was overthrown and new gods arose to struggle to take his place. It is a common theme in mythology and I think it would fit Dominions nicely.

[VedalkenBear]

Er...

Do you even know what the word means? To give the reference:

http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Pantocrator

[Sombre]

You can also play as the pantokrator in the Mytheology pretenders mod. Just mentioning that in case you hadn't noticed.

[Foodstamp]

VedalkenBear said:
Er...

Do you even know what the word means? To give the reference:

http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Pantocrator

Yeah, I have seen the internet definitions saying it means Jesus Christ.

I think Dominions uses the word in a different context. In one of my Religions classes, Pantokrator had a different meaning. It meant all powerful, usually used in the context of an earlier supreme diety.

And the link you posted supports this somewhat. One of the definitions listed actually says :

The most common translation is "Almighty" or "All-powerful." In this understanding, Pantokrator is a compound word formed from the Greek words for "all" and the noun "strength" (κρατο&#962. This is often understood in terms of potential power; i.e., able to do anything, or omnipotentent.

"Another translation is "Ruler of All" or "Sustainer of the World." In this understanding, Pantokrator is a compound word formed from the Greek for "all" and the verb meaning "To accomplish something" or "to sustain something" (κρατε&#969. This translation speaks more to God's actual power; i.e., God does everything (as opposed to God can do everything)."

Which I think would have fit Chronus and Ymir (Especially) nicely before the other gods came along.

The internet is not the end all - be all of definitions and meanings of words. Take the word "myth" for instance. One of our assignments was to define "myth" in the context of religion. The correct answer was "A story (True or False) that reveals a profound truth." or some junk. None of us found that definition on the internet, so no soup for us.

[VedalkenBear]

...

You're not understanding what I'm saying, do you? *sigh* You're taking it out of context. Yes, it means 'almighty', but did you read the etymology on the page, or did you just pick and choose what would support your argument?

And I used the site because it was handy. I have an Orthodox Bishop living with me if you want more detailed information. Somehow, I don't think you do.

[Gandalf Parker]

I suspect, as in most things in Dominion, the definition would be the one from times previous to present day religions. Remember that Kristoffers day job is teaching ancient religion

[VedalkenBear]

Possibly. It's certainly useful as a term that means exactly what you want it to mean and yet no one knows it except for the privileged few. (Hmm, would that make it Gnostic?)

I'd be interested in hearing in exactly which religions it's actually been used as a term. The only place I've run across it is in Orthodox iconography.

[Foodstamp]

I am not trying to offend your religion. I am just giving you an account as to how it was used in one of my Religions courses. I picked through and found the part in your definition that supports that, but I didn't just pull my original definition of the word out of thin air.

I still have the course book, it is called "Ways to the Center".

I would also like to add that my interpretation of the word does not necessarily imply that I feel it is the only interpretation. I don't feel that in this context, the word means Jesus Christ.

I feel in this context, the word holds closer to the definition I gave, because in the game the Pantokrator is dethroned, and new pretender gods squabble for power. I still hold on to my argument that this theme is seen throughout European mythology, particularly Norse and Greek, and that is where I am drawing the visual representation.

The Pantokrator could have been a 6 legged dog in the mind of the Dominions 3 developers as far as I know. I was just offering suggestions as to how to do a visual representation of it for a mod.

I feel your comments on the other hand, are narrow minded and spring forth from some need to defend your beliefs and exact them on other people.

My interpretation of the word is as follows : A supreme diety who rules or dwells without challenge.

[VedalkenBear]

And where did I state that I thought that the name referred to Christ? Certainly the Orthodox use it in that sense. And the only etymology I could find, on a religious-neutral site, supported my understanding of the term.

My issue is not the who of the application, it is the when. It feels anachronistic to use the term to refer to pre-Christian religions if the term did not come into usage until the Christian era. That is why I am currently checking to see exactly when and to what the term has been applied in history.

I am fairly certain, having had several very pleasant discussions on religion with the designers, that they don't view the Pantocrator in their own minds as such. However, that is neither here nor there.

However, I'd like to ask exactly why you think I'm responding to this out of some religious fervor. You don't know my religion, and yet you attribute (incorrectly) my motives to some notion in your own mind as to how religious people behave. I find that... odd.

Ah well. I hope I've explained myself to you somewhat better now.