Pls explain how early summoning spells are useful

[General_Jah]

I'm new to D3 and have started my first game past the tutorial. I've read the manual and believe I have a beginers grasp on this game....

I'm playing Vanheim Early Age.

I invested some early research into conjuration and boy was I disappointed... I'm hoping you experts can show me the error of my ways...

1) What useful strategies are there for these early ritual and battle summoning spells?

I'm currently Conjuration 3 and none of the units really seem all that worth it. I've revived wights, banes, scorpions, wyverns, Hawks, and other ritual beasts... none seem much better than the units I can buy enmasse at my captial. If these were free I could see their uses but they require quite a few gems which means you can't summon to many of them until you are completely out of gems...

thanks in advance for the tips!

[st.patrik]

Well early summons aren't necessarily going to be so incredibly hot, but summons in general are a potent (some say too potent) force, for several reasons:

• they don't cost upkeep (in most cases)
• many of them are more powerful than recruitable troops/commanders
• you can summon units in a castle under siege but not recruit units
• gem income is not affected by unrest or negative events (unlike gold)

there are probably more advantages, but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.

However summons, like all troops, need to be used thoughtfully in order to be effective. Many of them have niche uses, like the Hawks summoned by the Call of the Winds spell - very useful for attacking provinces you can't reach with your armies, to sow confusion in the enemy's heartland.

[General_Jah]

st.patrik said:
Well early summons aren't necessarily going to be so incredibly hot, but summons in general are a potent (some say too potent) force, for several reasons:

• they don't cost upkeep (in most cases)
• many of them are more powerful than recruitable troops/commanders
• you can summon units in a castle under siege but not recruit units
• gem income is not affected by unrest or negative events (unlike gold)

there are probably more advantages, but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.

However summons, like all troops, need to be used thoughtfully in order to be effective. Many of them have niche uses, like the Hawks summoned by the Call of the Winds spell - very useful for attacking provinces you can't reach with your armies, to sow confusion in the enemy's heartland.

thanks for the reply. So if I'm understanding you right early summons aren't very useful... its more of a 'late game' strategy or higher tier strategy per say?

[jutetrea]

I'm a definite MP noob, but have played quite a bit SP. The only summons i use frequently are the mini-army's - call of the wild, horde from hell, sea troll, earth troll groupings...occasionally call of the winds. All these usually under duress (or sea troll for amph usage).

My most frequent use is to get the bridge for another +magic item for bigger spells. i.e. i have a 3 earth + 2 boosters, get a 4 earth, so then have a 4E + 2 boosters, etc, etc.

Its SP, so I can usually do the initial land grab, then try not to annoy anyone till i've got my paths figured out - hopefully without using my pretender (so he's either taking indy's or forging).

Astral is a bit tough - who's the best bridge with no/low national astrals? ether mage/lord? Same with earth, bugger can't wear boots so need the book or a multi to get a good boost. A rare empowerment will make the jump as well, although I generally hoard my gems till someone annoys me.

[Ironhawk]

General_Jah said:
thanks for the reply. So if I'm understanding you right early summons aren't very useful... its more of a 'late game' strategy or higher tier strategy per say?

Yeah, you are basically correct, Jah. The low level summons are not cost effective, due to how easy they are to research and cost. I only use them in dire emergencies, when gems no longer have any meaning (ie. my capital is about to be seiged). Certain low level spells have niche uses. Call of the Winds, for example is an excellent spell because it can summon a horde of awesome patrollers to whatever province you want to root out those nasty spies. Another good low level spell is the one that summons a Bane. They make decent thugs.

[Teraswaerto]

Wights are not bad IMO, but not really cost effective either because they summon 1 at a time. Mage-time is an important resource.

Also, it's pretty much always best to save gems for high level stuff if you can.

[NTJedi]

General_Jah said:
thanks for the reply. So if I'm understanding you right early summons aren't very useful... its more of a 'late game' strategy or higher tier strategy per say?

Many summoning spells are unbalanced... for the gem cost some are very good, some are very bad and some are very ugly. I didn't list all the spells... was getting tired.

The Good:
Black_Servant... for being level_1 these fellas are useful as scouts, assassins(with_heart), or thugs.
Sea_Dogs... good deal for a level_1 spell, allowing attacks of water provinces sooner.
Vine_Men... with the vine crown and/or Animist this is a good level_1 spell.
Sea_Serpent... this can be worth its cost... a few buff spells and this high hitpoint creature can be worth the 8 gems.
Summon_Shades: good deal for 4 ethereal troops early in the game. Even one by itself can be a great decoy for arrows on the front line.
Call_of_Winds: 20 patrollers to locate spies, scouts and assassins. Later on the commander can be used to quickly move fast troops to the front.
Revive_Wight/Bane: These fellas are tough especially if you have someone cast ethereal on them. Later on in the game death gems can be used elsewhere.
Corpse_Man_Construction: Good spell in combination with the items which provide bonuses to the spell. If you want to summon from your air gems then this is the spell for the early/middle stage of the game.
Summon_SeaLions: These fellas are very nasty in the water even without any help.
Awaken_Vine_Ogre: A good deal when using a crown, treelord or tree staff.
Summon_Summer_Lions/Fall_Bears/Winter_Wolves: Some nice ethereal units and the auras can be useful for bringing down tough calvary or worse. Many ways they can be used.
Summon_Shade_Beasts: Not a great deal, but still useful if you haven't reached pale riders yet.
Spirits_of_the_Woods: They have awe and ethereal... with some protection from arrows they can protect your archers very nicely. Bad side is they cannot leave a province so its good if you need a defensive unit.
Summon_Bog_Beast: Considering their poison spit and poison aura they can be useful if built into a special army.
Contact_Draconians: Not that great, but when compared against other air summons it's a good one. The leader can keep summoning more of his type. They're fast flying, poison attack and fair magic resistance... useful for sieging/storming castles.
Contact_Naiad: Good way to pickup a nature/water mage... clams anyone?
Naiad_Warriors: Many good qualities for a decent gem price.
Spirit_Mastery: An all time favorite... very useful in many ways.
Revive_Bane_Lord: Good Undead Commander... fire bola keeps him near the front yet not too close. WraithSword is a good tool for him.
Awaken_Sleeper: Great Commander for leading troops, undead and magic units. He's built to survive a few swings and arrows.
Summon_Fire_Snakes: Good against SCs... the fire aura and poison attacks cover two vunerablities. If no SC threats are nearby it's better to alchemize those 9 gems for buying troops.
Summon_Great_Eagle: Only 3 air... the description SAYS this unit is sacred, yet the one which arrives is not sacred. The game does have a sacred great eagle yet for some reasons the developers recreated this bird and never changed the description.
Contact_Sea_Troll/King_Court: Good for marching into the water provinces and the King receives one water gem each turn.
Streams_from_Hades: Nice way to pickup a powerful death and water mage which means she can carry normal troops, undead and magic troops.
Contact_Troll/King_Court: Good units but they have a very high gold upkeep. The king is worth keeping around, but the place the normal trolls on the front line as soon as possible.
Summon_Spectre: This undead mage can arrive with a nice mix of different magic paths giving you access to items and spells otherwise not accessible for some nations.
Summon_Ghosts: Good spell... great with a very high death mage.
Contact_Lamia/Lamia_Queen: Good spell for a high nature mage and the Queen can arrive with a nice mix of different magic paths giving access to items/spells otherwise not accessible for some nations.
Construct_Mandragora: Nasty attack and many appear for strong nature mages, much better then the weaker manikins.
Mechanical_Men: Full immunity to all paths, strong weapon and protection as well. Good in many ways.
Summon_Catoblepas: 3 or 4 of these fellas side_by_side can do some heavy range damage... stick some ethereal undead around them and have fun.
Summon_Mound_Fiend: DeathMage/Priest and summons undead for free... sweet long term deal.
Call_Wraith_Lord: Immortal, death magic, good default equipment, and can summon ghosts for free!
Elemental_Royals: All very strong and worth the gems... it's too bad the AI opponents rarely summon these fellas. Even when you give the AIs lots of extra gems, libraries, and very powerful mages at the start of the game... it still very rarely summons them.
Faerie_Court: Good Air/Nature mage, will heal units and can summon sprites.
Golem_Construction: Good Astral Golem, many uses and one main weakness which is also a strength... its astral magic.
Call_Abomination: Strong creature, can enter water provinces and strong range attack.
Legion_of_Wights: Good deal for the gem cost if you need quick help.
Tartarian_Gate: Great spell in combo with gift of reason and gift of health or chalice


The Bad:
Bind Scorpion Beast... a better deal than the fire drake, but still it's better to alchemize the gems and buy good troops.
Summon_Animals: Not that good, but if you're in trouble early in the game and need an army now this can work. I recommend casting the vine men/ogres instead when possible.
Summon_Wyvern... not worth 8 gems for one fat bird. The beast seems weak and not worthy of being called a wyvern... so I call this thing a fat bird.
Ice_Drake... not worth the 8 gems for this ice cricket... save the gems for army of sea trolls or winter wolves.
Cave_Drake... not worth the 8 gems for this snail... better to save your earth gems or alchemize them for troops.
Summon_Horned_Serpents... Bad deal... just don't cast.
Summon_Amphiptere... not that great, but okay to mix a few with some short ranged archers.
Call_Kraken... an okay deal, but its slow, very low mg resistance and eats lots of food.
PrideofLions... an okay deal, but only useful if you need lots of fast units in one turn.
Construct Manikin: Okay spell, but it's better to wait if possible or summon vine men/ogres instead.
Summon_Spring_Hawks... they have too few hitpoints and 20 air gems can usually be better spent.
Summon_Kitharionic_Lion: I'm fond of this one, but for 6 nature he's not worth the gem cost.
Iron_Pigs: Better to alchemize the earth gems for buying troops then summon these pigs.
Ether_Gate: Great commander and good units, but way too expensive. If you have lots of extra astral and need troops then this is a fair deal.
Harvester_of_Sorrows: Expensive, but can be useful for specific situations.
Animal_Horde: Expensive for only animals... and keep in mind these units will need around 150 food supplies. Can be useful during a desperate moment.
Awaken_Ivy_King: LamiaQueen is usually a better deal unless you need a high hitpoint nature mage.
Awaken_Tarrasque: High casting requirement, expensive gem cost for one strong unit. At this stage in the game nature gems are better spent casting gift of reason or awaken sleeper.


The Ugly:
Fire_Drake... definitely not worth 8 fire gems. Better to alchemize those gems and buy troops.
ClockWork_Horrors... Nice troops, but they fatique way toooo fast which means their protection is basically worthless by turn_3 on the battlefield and they're passed out by turn_5. Previously a player could use the relief spell, but that's been nerfed where these units just aren't worth the gems.
Howl... Even though this is a battlefield spell it's so terrible it had to be mentioned.
Never cast this spell !! It's better, easier and cheaper to do swarm. The developers were drinking very heavily the evening this spell was created.
Call_Eater_of_the_Dead: For 50 astral gems it's not worth summoning one creature which will not only leave you and go beserk, but if another one is summoned the original vanishes. Even if the spell only costed 20 astral gems it still would not be used in multiplayer games... its one of the king ugly spells.

[PvK]

My opinions/experiences (which I have little interest in arguing with anyone about, BTW, especially if the word "useless" is going to be exaggerated):

Banes can make good thugs if you use them carefully.

A few Wights can be good accent for some careful mixes of troops.

Giant Scorpions are easy for some mages to cast and are not terribly expensive and fairly tough & dangerous.

Wyverns I have always had bad luck with, and usually would rather use air gems on many other things, but they are fliers, which can in theory be used to good effect in some cases.

Hawks are good for the fast flying leader, for attacking very weak targets/provinces, immediate attacks anywhere on the map, providing air fodder, flying hold & attack rear light strikes, etc. I usually like to summon them to a friendly province so I can script and formate them before use. I also often separate the leader from the minions. Sometimes you have flying troops with know flying leaders, so the hawk can lead them for much improved map movement (e.g. indy Pegasus Riders).

PvK

[Teraswaerto]

Why do you say think Howl is so bad? The wolves come from all sides, even behind, and can kill enemy mages and disrupt their troop formations. Swarm only hits the front lines, and doesn't kill anything.

[Saxon]

Swarm is really nice at the start of combat and is instantly in effect whenever cast. It holds up lots of troops so you dominate when the ground troops clash or it stops missile fire or it stops spells. Or it holds troops longer so you can cast spells or hammer with missiles. Sure, the bugs get killed of in a round or three, but the impact is almost always felt in a positive way.

Howl takes a long time to do anything and, aside from the occasionally killing a commander or two, tends to be too diffuse to really effect the battle. The longer the battle the more it does, while Swarm tends to be all at once.

On another spell, Troll King’s Court does produce pricy to upkeep units, but they come with an earth mage who can buff their protection and hit the other army’s. I find the trolls are damn fine infantry who are very durable and effective, particularly when the commander casts appropriate buff spells on them. I put them on the front lines not to kill them off, but as first class infantry who I want to keep around.