Mod - Improved Light Cavalry

[Pocus]

a question, how mods which deal with the same parameters (changing the same unit eg) supercede one another?

[apoger]

>a question, how mods which deal with the same parameters (changing the same unit eg) supercede one another?


I saw a comment from IW that suggested that mods that affect the same thing may be problematic in multiplayer. Seems the sequence of mod loading might be different on different machines. This might lead to different stats on things in the same game but on different PC's.

I'll do some testing and see how bad I can make it from my end.

[apoger]

>After failing to get Alex's mod off the dom library

Sunray has my mods on his site.
Illwinter told me they have them up on their site tonight.

[apoger]

>a fear ability to represent the greater stress they could apply. This is not just about fear but about representing the overall impact of aggressive LC.

Hrm, fear is supposed to be the supernatural kind.

After all, many troops/creatures in this game are downright scary (Emerald Guards, Knights, Summer Lions, Minotaurs) but don't generate extra fear beyond the normal morale affect by causing combat losses.

On the other hand I see what you're getting at. In many ways LC would cause a disruption in the enemy ranks due to the threat of being attacked from the flank/rear. Still, this is hard to model in the game as writen. I don't like the idea of using fear for this, as it would be applicable to a multitude of other troops as well (for a variety of reasons).


Perhaps an overall speed modifier?
The average tactical speed of each army could be measured at battle start. The slower army could lose speed and/or defense skill off their stats, as a simlation that they are limited due to the stresses of being outmanuvered. Of course we would have to get Illwinter to do this sort of thing, as it's beyond the mod tools capabilities.

[PDF]

I concur that these changes are welcome...They still aren't sufficient to make LC interesting to build IMHO
As long as "Skirmishing" can't be done, there's no rationale for using expensive LC to shoot instead of cheap foot archers, or unprotected LC for shock instead of sturdy HC...

[Leadman]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
Hiya,

After failing to get Alex's mod off the dom library I quickly made up my own for Tien Ch'i and came up with what I believe to be an important break through in dealing with quality LC - fear.


So give low to moderate quality LC high defence, as Alex has suggested, to make it hard to shift and give the hard buggers (Huns, Xiongnu, Turkomans, Mongols, Szekeler etc) a fear ability to represent the greater stress they could apply. This is not just about fear but about representing the overall impact of aggressive LC.

So my Tien C'hi Barbarian Kingdoms mod gives the LC bucklers, raising both defense and prot, I've raised precision to 11 (ouch), removed the lance, tinkered with res cost and added fear -4 (good for pillaging). I've given the other cav precison 9 - lower than the LC to reflect the impact of heavy armor on shooting from horseback.

cheers

Keir

I think that fear is a great way to simulate the effect of LC with the current limitations. High defense against missile fire would be better than an overall increase in defense IMHO. I diagree with lowering the precision of armored cav. They were usually the nobles or other elite and were probably better with the bow. I look forward to giving your mod a run! Thanks!

Leadman

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by PDF:
As long as "Skirmishing" can't be done

Furthermore, I think a "Skirmish" order shouldn't be hard to implement:

if [distance_to_closest_enemy < own_AP / 2] then
move_back[ own_AP / 2 ]
endif

That should be enough to make LI and LC worth buying.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by apoger:
Hrm, fear is supposed to be the supernatural kind.

I think you are defining things to cause yourself problems. Fear may generally be of the supernatural kind but the results of low fear, pillage bonus and wearing away enemies morale while they struggle to cause harm to you, makes sense for representing the impact of aggressive LC. Sure the term as generally used doesn't quite apply but this light stretch of imagination isn't too hard to make - if it actually works as a mechanism. Not then going furthur and extending it to Emerald Guards etc is a matter of remembering why it was given - to represent the impact the high wear down factor of aggressive LC. Anyway I can't know if its going to work till I test it. Heheheh - this will be fun.

I do not think this ability should be given to all LC. Much LC was low aggression and there to shoot arrows, worry at flanks and stay out of harms way. Fire and flee covers the way Pechnegs generally fought pretty darn well. Representing these LC's ability to skirmish by increased def seems a good approach for now.

I think Illwinter could have been a bit looser in giving out fear to really big creatures like Giants. Seeing the look on Gandalfs face as the Trolls burst through the gate at Minis Tirith was a good even if it would have been better with the Witch King coming through. I guess what held Illwinter back is that a Giant shouldn't be afraid of a Giant. Not having any Giant races in the WoTR mod I'll be giving Trolls a low fear rating.

re LC and missile fire.

Unfortunately for LC massed foot archery was pretty deadly and the only solution is to ride off or charge. Even small amounts of missile troops proved useful for supporting HI against LC. In dom its actually pretty easy to put arrow catchers out the front with orders to keep them out of harms way and this keeps the LC fairly safe.

I was thinking Last night about the Barbarian Kingdom HC. In the ancients rules I play these are currently represented as either charging cavalry or Cataphracts as there is evidence for wide spread usage of horse armour and the riders were heavily armoured. That being the case I'm going to upgrade the HC's armour which will aid the syncronicity between the LC's archery and HC's lances as their is nothing as frustrating as wiping out your HC with archery while they pursue the enemy off table.

I wish those bloody archers would ignore any target which has an intervening friends close to it. Its not like archers really did shoot into close combat with the threat of killing their own side unless directly instructed. They stopped, had a smoke, read the newspaper, made a cuppa and waited for the next opportunity .

re prec for HC

I have actually raised this from what it was just not so much as the LC's. My understanding is that armor that was both full and heavy was a significant impairiment to firing a bow. Illwinter dropped all their precisions to 8 presumably due to the difficulty of firing a bow from horseback. I think this is way harsh on a peoples who learnt to ride before they walked, whose legs have changed shape from so much riding young, and who specialised in the useage of powerful powers with devestating results. It was the horse archer that was the basis of the success of the Mongol, Huns, Turks etc so having BK's most useful units as being foot and LC who can't shoot straight is why I made this mod.

Cheers

Keir