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Old October 27th, 2018, 12:28 PM

Aquila Aquila is offline
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Default New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

Hello,

I am having a hard time to overcome the enemy in the first mission of the Japanese "China 37" campaign.

Especially the low hit chances angainst the entrenched enemies seem to make it difficult. Normally artillery is crucial to soften up the defenses but not much provided.

Also the short turn limit doesn´t allow for wasting may rounds with shelling and furthermore prompts to charge into bad situations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc1-...ature=youtu.be

I´ve probably learned following things:

1) MG´s need to be transported due to their slow movement speed, I just figured this out way too late.

2) It is probably not a good idea to engage the complete enemy line but to focus on one part of his line and then punch there trough with superior forces?

Still if some of you have some additional tips how to overcome the enemy in this missions please share your insights with me. I´ve already had issues to overcome the Israeli enemy in the first mission of the Arabic campaign of WINSPMBT, so there is something I´m missing, especially when taking the short turn limits into account.
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Old October 27th, 2018, 04:50 PM

zastava128 zastava128 is offline
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Default Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
2) It is probably not a good idea to engage the complete enemy line but to focus on one part of his line and then punch there trough with superior forces?
Yes, this is probably the most important principle of war.

Some more general tips:

1. Look at the approaches to the enemy objectives. Which are the most obvious ones? These are the most likely to be heavily defended, possibly with bunkers and mines. Avoid them.

2. Avoid advancing for long distances over clear ground. Use the terrain (including slopes!) to cover your advance.

3. Send small units like scouts or armoured cars to probe a route - if they encounter very heavy resistance, choose another path.

4. Resist the temptation to take inaccurate "pot shots" at long range with your infantry - they are unlikely to cause damage, and will only make you more visible and slow your advance - the more you fire, the easier it will be for your enemies to spot you.

5. Use smoke to cover your advance. If your infantry get shot at, using smoke instead of returning fire is usually a better choice.

6. Pay close attention to which infantry units are carrying LMGs, as they have both more firepower and more range than those armed only with rifles. In the China '37 campaign, this is one of your key advantages against the Chinese, who usually outnumber you but have worse equipment.

7. Use the Z-fire option with your MGs to suppress the enemy. But remember to keep your MGs out of range of their rifles and LMGs!

I've attached an annotated map of the Chinese positions (zipped due to attachment size restrictions). Where do you think it would be best to attack? The Chinese line has a definite weakness - can you see it?
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Old October 27th, 2018, 05:43 PM

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Default Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

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Originally Posted by zastava128 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
2) It is probably not a good idea to engage the complete enemy line but to focus on one part of his line and then punch there trough with superior forces?
Yes, this is probably the most important principle of war.

Some more general tips:

1. Look at the approaches to the enemy objectives. Which are the most obvious ones? These are the most likely to be heavily defended, possibly with bunkers and mines. Avoid them.

2. Avoid advancing for long distances over clear ground. Use the terrain (including slopes!) to cover your advance.

3. Send small units like scouts or armoured cars to probe a route - if they encounter very heavy resistance, choose another path.

4. Resist the temptation to take inaccurate "pot shots" at long range with your infantry - they are unlikely to cause damage, and will only make you more visible and slow your advance - the more you fire, the easier it will be for your enemies to spot you.

5. Use smoke to cover your advance. If your infantry get shot at, using smoke instead of returning fire is usually a better choice.

6. Pay close attention to which infantry units are carrying LMGs, as they have both more firepower and more range than those armed only with rifles. In the China '37 campaign, this is one of your key advantages against the Chinese, who usually outnumber you but have worse equipment.

7. Use the Z-fire option with your MGs to suppress the enemy. But remember to keep your MGs out of range of their rifles and LMGs!

I've attached an annotated map of the Chinese positions (zipped due to attachment size restrictions). Where do you think it would be best to attack? The Chinese line has a definite weakness - can you see it?
Thanks for the tips there really helpful, especially due to the fact that I use most attack shots and didn´t know that it does more harm than good.

Is there by the way a way to see a hit chance prediction? I can´t spot it on the UI.

I would choose the low aproach because it allows me to face the least expected resistance. The middle aprach is tempting die to the close cover but once being on the height of the trenches, I´ve probably had to face incoming fire from 12, 9, and 6 o´clock.
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Old October 27th, 2018, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

If you decide to fire, do not fire one unit multiple times. DO NOT hit F,F,F!

Fire one (1) unit (and attract opportunity fire) once only, now move to another and fire him once only. Opportunity fire against #2 will be at initial accuracy - if you had just repeat-fired #1, the enemy's second shots on him would be more accurate as they range in on him. Now choose another unfired unit and fire the once. Continue through all relevant units. Then review these - if any are badly suppressed, you may want to rally these. Ignore light suppression (not pinned). Now repeat the chain of fire, one shot per unit and moving to the next one one till all are done.

If you notice enemy fire is slackening off then it is maybe time to advance. Move one unit 1 hex forwards and see what happens. Now move another, if you did not receive a storm of return fire with #1 - otherwise continue with the round of fire. Once fire is really not being returned, move units each at 1 hex, move to another, move him 1 hex only as well.

Once within say 300m or so, try not to have your riflemen move more than 1 hex, possibly 2 in their turn. Fast moving infantry is vulnerable. The more hexes infantry moves, the easier they are to hit and the more kills they receive. If fire is incredibly intense then maybe only move 1 hex on alternate moves, and if he is really beating your boys down due to weight of fire, do not initiate fire, leave them with 6 shots to reply in opportunity fire against him (meanwhile dial in any arty on the enemy). If it is waaay too hot, then maybe pop smoke and pull back and try advancing at another point in the line.

If you have machine guns, and can see enemy units then before any rifle fire whatsoever, pound the visible enemy units. Suppression is your aim, casualties a bonus. If the enemy is pinned, or worse, move on to another visible unit and suppress him to pinned status. (Remember that the game gives you unrealistic information on enemy state, so by hovering your mouse over an enemy unit the game lets you know if he is pinned, retreating etc.) Try to leave the HMG units with 2-3 reserved shots - if new enemy appear during the fire or movement phases outlined above, hose these down with the reserved shots before returning to rifle fire. Pinned units wont be firing at you. If you have a choice of who to point the MGs at then favour adjacent units - MGs have a 1 hex blast circle and so "spread the joy" to any neighbouring enemy troops. MGs are long range weapons - so long as they are outside enemy rifle range, they will be close enough, the low speed is not really too much of a disadvantage as they shoot >20 hexes. MGs do best in flat open terrain of course (deserts, steppe etc.).

Killing with infantry weapons on halted or dug-in enemy is done at 1-2 hexes, preferably 1 hex where grenades come into play. The idea of fire and movement is to keep the enemy continuously pinned or worse, as you slowly but steadily close to killing range. Pinned units wont be firing back at you, runners will get cut down. Fire and manoeuvre is similar to fire and movement, but in this case your firing line stays mainly static and pins the enemy, while a secondary assault team approaches them along a covered route (round a hill, up a stream bed, through a flanking wood etc.) and then eventually emerge from the cover at his flank or even rear and engage him at close quarters.

If you have size 0 scouts or inf-AT then move these at least 2 hexes in front of the advance before the main line even thinks of moving. Do not move them too fast that they get spotted - they wont do well. Don't ever think of firing them - their work is done with eyeball Mk1, not bullets!.

Snipers, if you have them should maybe follow the scouts by 2-3 hexes - or be placed 1 hex behind the forward line of infantry. Snipers should not lead - they are costly and if they trip over an unseen rifle section, they die. I prefer to use them a bit like MMGs - longish range support fire from behind the main rifle line 2-3 hexes or so.

If the enemy fire his MMGs at you - they are prime targets for immediate counter-battery fire by your snipers and MMGs once located. Don't move your riflemen if his MMGs are better than pinned, and if he has them you should spread units so there is a 1 hex gap to lessen the effect of the beaten zone on your guys.
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Old October 28th, 2018, 06:28 AM

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Default Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Thanks for the tips there really helpful, especially due to the fact that I use most attack shots and didn´t know that it does more harm than good.

Is there by the way a way to see a hit chance prediction? I can´t spot it on the UI.

I would choose the low aproach because it allows me to face the least expected resistance. The middle aprach is tempting die to the close cover but once being on the height of the trenches, I´ve probably had to face incoming fire from 12, 9, and 6 o´clock.
Yes, the low approach is the best. What I did was strike hard at the low approach, then flank the Chinese positions on the middle hill. Then you have to figure out how to take the village and the temple.

There is indeed a hit chance prediction. Select your unit, then press "T" and look at the bar at the bottom of your screen - it shows the name of the enemy unit, its distance, and your hit chance (ACCURACY). Use "N" and "P" to cycle through potential targets.
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Old October 28th, 2018, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

The only other thing I'd add to Andy's post is when I see any (repeat any) enemy arty smoke puffs, they get immediate and intense attention form my Off/On board arty/Mtrs.
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Old October 28th, 2018, 02:03 PM

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Thumbs up Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

Thank you all for taking the time to provide detailed answers. Many of the infos help me alot and I now have a idea of a plan and how to approach the situation.

Very awesome community here!
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Old October 28th, 2018, 02:26 PM

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Default Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Also the short turn limit doesn´t allow for wasting may rounds with shelling and furthermore prompts to charge into bad situations.
Increase the number of turns in ScenHack. Some "puzzle" scenarios are balanced to a point where there is no place for mistake or delay. I hate when the scenario is about to end and I'm still in the mids of a battle cause I used different approach than the author had envisioned.
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Old October 29th, 2018, 07:47 AM

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Default Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

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Originally Posted by kulik242 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Also the short turn limit doesn´t allow for wasting may rounds with shelling and furthermore prompts to charge into bad situations.
Increase the number of turns in ScenHack. Some "puzzle" scenarios are balanced to a point where there is no place for mistake or delay. I hate when the scenario is about to end and I'm still in the mids of a battle cause I used different approach than the author had envisioned.
Yeah, I really dislike that so many of the campaigns rely on the time limit to more or less force the player to advance at an imprudent speed along a certain path into defensive positions or ambushes.
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Old October 29th, 2018, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: New player: struggling to overcome entrenched enemies

Historically, there is a thing called time. As a designer and a player, sometimes the time fact needs to put you in a squeeze. In the board game ASL you have a limited amount of time to obtain your objectives, based on the historical outcome/results.

So I am not opposed to time limits in scenarios or campaigns. Its part of the game.
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